Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Congressional relations

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Hello.

Yes, sir.

Oh, I didn't want to catch you at dinner.

Were you there?

No, not at home.

Oh, you're home.

Yeah.

Yeah, but...

But if you're going in at dinner, why don't you call me after dinner?

That's okay.

No, sorry.

In between.

Okay, fine.

I, uh...

I'm just talking to Manola.

I was talking to, uh...

Ehrlichman today, and I wanted you and him and perhaps discuss this, and then we'll talk about it tomorrow, in case I don't go on the press thing tomorrow, which, of course, remains, depending on the POW thing and so forth.

But he had apparently a long session with Scott, and Scott was bitching about everything, as usual, about the fronts from the White House staff and all that sort of thing, or

I mean, things that calls were not returned and yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And I don't know who's in charge of that, but I know he's a congenital bitcher, but it's just, you know what I mean?

I told John, I said, is he complaining about the fact that he's not getting down?

And John said, well, I guess so.

Good Lord.

And I said, well, I don't know how I could have him more often.

You know what I mean?

We spend everything and all that sort of thing.

But then he went on to a long song and dance.

And what Ehrlichman says is that Scott comes down and we've got to have some bitch sessions with the senators, you know, where they can come in and complain and this and that.

And I think he says the reason is they're scared.

Yeah.

They're all scared about their elections, or they want to come in and complain to the president.

Well, the point is, the reason I raise this is that when I look at this rather, and it is rather heavy social schedule, you know, two church services and two evenings, and every one of these pastors, you know, normally, I remember in the Eisenhower years, he would do it once every two years,

And just to congressional reception, shake their damned hands.

And that was about it.

And then now and then they needed to see somebody.

But, I mean, we can't go to that extreme.

But I thought this business of having these social things came from Timmons and the rest.

I mean, it did.

And from the guys up there.

And from the senators and congressmen.

Well.

That raised the points and all the meaning to having with them.

But now, having these...

raises the point as to whether they were worth it and whether now we can go on.

Well, we can't rejuggle these.

I mean, we've got to have them.

But the point is that Scott says we've just got to get them all down so that they can present their views to the president, and they don't think they get through with the White House staff and so forth.

I think this gets to a very fundamental point here.

It probably gets really to the Timmons problem.

I just don't know.

I mean, you know, who tends to go in in sort of a, you know, a diffident way rather than Ms. McGregor did.

Yeah.

Or does it?

I think that may be.

I just think we've got to face up to that.

I think you and John...

You and John better have a talk about it.

But the main point is you've got to decide what the hell you're going to do with my time.

If I'm going to do this, then, Bob, we just can't do all the social things and, you know, take an hour of that hit and 18 other things.

It's absurd.

Well, understand, no, it isn't absurd if that's the best use of time.

Yeah, but there's no way that you can make a case that it is.

you don't think so no and i think you fall well i'll talk to john get his view but you fall into the john's sponge theory john's feeling is that maybe we better do that because of all the vetoes that are coming up and so i better talk to them so they can feel they've been in and express their views the way else what do you think of that well and i think the more you do the more you'll have to yeah because anyone you talk to is only going to

Well, but the point is, when you stop to think of it, if you just do the Republicans, first of all, you don't... Well, on the veto, I guess you're getting them, but, you know, they...

But even take what we have done, you know.

John said he'd talk to Stevens, and Stevens was bitching because he didn't be invited to the Vietnam Loyalist thing.

Well, Christ, he didn't go, of course.

And John did stand up on it.

But even that, you see, they...

You have a situation here where I think that because we're doing more, that we're going to be asked to do more and more.

That's right.

And, you know, the Rumsfeld theory is beginning to develop.

I just don't want to have...

I mean, Timmons and Karlogos and Karlogos was urging that we do these things, too.

And I just don't know it.

Now, if I do it with the senators, now there's a hell of a long list of congressmen waiting.

That's right.

And most of them are better people.

Better.

But they are more...

Remember, the reason we did this, Bob, is you remember that Ehrlichman had been down and talked to the CNM and so forth.

You had, right?

And didn't you all agree that it should be this social crap?

Yeah.

Or did you?

I don't know.

Yes, and John was in there when we were talking about it, and he made the same point that that's what they're really after.

And that's sure what they say.

But I think you do have very much the...

The Rumsfeld theory, you give them all that, and they're going to want more.

When you give them more, they're going to want more than that.

Well, the only question is, you know, we'd actually want to do everything, and it's like with the governors.

I could go in and open their meeting tomorrow and take 15 minutes, a half hour, 30 minutes, or 45 minutes of questions.

So that's great.

That's great, right?

How much can you do for the governors?

How much can you do for the mayors?

You're giving them a dinner, spending the whole evening banging around with them?

And I think, though, that on the congressional thing, I think that part of this, Bob, is coming because of the inadequacy of the Timmons operation.

I think Timmons is being hollow without even...

as I said, having the Harlow Mystique.

And I don't blame him for it because we knew he had it.

But I think what is happening here is that Emmons is saying, well, gee whiz, I just think, you know, gee, it's too bad.

Maybe the president ought to see you.

I don't know.

You see what I mean?

You know how he talks.

Or do you agree?

I think that's very possible.

I have never seen him talk that way, but it's certainly... Well, he talks that way when he meets any of us on anything else.

He's basically...

You know, not a positive type of personality.

He's a negative personality.

Yeah.

And that's a hell of a problem right now with these people.

Yep.

Well, you talk to John in the morning, and if we do not have a press thing, we'll get together on it, okay?

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Congressional relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on February 28, 1973

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