Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 44 › Conversation 044-010
Nixon phone call with Kleindienst on Watergate investigation
Thursday, March 22, 1973 · 2:19 PM–2:26 PM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Attorney General Richard Kleindienst discuss the need for Kleindienst to serve as the primary point of contact for Senator Howard Baker, who has expressed frustration over communication lapses regarding the Watergate investigation. Nixon explicitly directs Kleindienst to "babysit" Baker to ensure he receives proper guidance and stays aligned with White House strategy. Additionally, they discuss the confirmation prospects of L. Patrick Gray as FBI Director, considering potential alternatives like a judicial appointment if his Senate support falters, and confirm the details of a limited policy regarding the release of raw FBI files to the Ervin Committee.
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Yes, sir.
Yes, Mr. President.
I wanted to tell you, you know, on that his administrative assistant was talking to and Baker was indicating some discontent with regard to I don't know whether, I'm not suggesting this is correct, but at least it's what Baker feels, that he has not been able to have the
you know the discussions with you etc that he would have liked and apparently he had one time you were supposed to get together and then you had to be out of town or something of that sort what i just wanted to tell you was that you know nobody here remember our conversation having any discussion at all with baker which i think is proper don't you now the point is on the other hand uh
wants and does need some, you know, contact, and it seems to me that you're the man.
I had one long conversation with him, Mr. President, and I made myself available to him a dozen times, you know.
Really?
Yeah.
And he's running here and he's running there, and it's awfully hard to get his hands on him.
But the last time I met was before and then after that conference that I had with him and Irvin.
You know, in which I said, Howard, I want you to feel free to call me.
You know, one problem that he's got in his goddamn mind, he's afraid to talk to anybody on the telephone.
Oh, I see.
And I said, Howard?
You're not being bugged.
I, of course, know.
But that's one of his problems, and then he's also busy, and then he really hasn't focused on this problem.
But I think as a result of our last meeting that we really don't have much of a problem.
This was raised today with Timmons.
No kidding.
By his administrative assistant.
God damn him.
So I guess the point is that we see we're counting on you to be the man there, Decker.
Sure.
And I want to keep everybody else out of this.
And so, you know, and I told Baker, I said, all right, now, who do you want to talk to?
He said, Kleindienst.
I said, fine, he's the man.
And so I looked at that, and so he's running down here.
Another belly-aching, crying senator now, the little son of a bitch.
He has no real reason to say that or to feel that way, Mr. President.
Let me suggest this.
You get him on the phone and get him down and say, look, you've heard some of this business.
He's also lying that he's taking now that he doesn't have any contact at the warehouse.
And, of course, he didn't want that.
That's not his fault.
That's not our fault.
I mean, we'd be delighted, except that it would not be the right thing.
On the other hand, contact with you is essential so that you can give him a little guidance on various things.
Part of the irritation might be is that he gave me a lot of ideas on what he thought you ought to do, and then I said, well, the President's already made some decisions.
Yeah, his idea that he wanted everybody to come down in public session.
And I said, Howard, now that the President has already decided that, and we've got the facts, let you and I figure out a way that we're going to implement it.
That's right.
Other ways, so forth.
We'll keep in touch with you, Dick, basically through Dean, which is the best way in terms of what can be worked out with the committee and that sort of thing.
within our guidelines, but then I think you've really got to be the baker hand holder, if you will.
That's a hell of a tough job, but if you have to have him move in with you, I'd do it.
Oh, babysit the son of a bitch 24 hours a day.
Yeah, that's right.
Get his wife out of the way and keep him in.
Mr. President, let me just talk to you for a second about Pat Gray.
I just finished a conversation with Jim Eastman.
I understand they're going to postpone her, I heard, for two weeks.
The thing is,
The whole goddamn thing pretty much hangs on Mack Mathias.
But Eason has some questions in his own mind, whether if they got him out of that committee... Get him on the floor.
Get him passed, yeah.
Whether or not they could get him passed.
I know.
Right, right.
You know, Pat wanted to go on the second circuit.
Lowell Weicker wants him to go on it.
I asked Jim, I said, well, suppose that we all conclude that we can't get Pat through.
I'm not prepared to say that right now.
Sure, I understand.
But suppose that we shot him on the floor and he was rejected.
And suppose that we wanted to put him on the Second Circuit.
He said, I think that would hurt him with respect to the Second Circuit.
So I think it gives a slightly added dimension to the problem.
I really am not prepared to accept Eason's point of view on whether he can win on the floor because Jim hasn't.
these senators.
He hasn't talked to them.
Yeah.
The process of doing that.
Wally Johnson apparently down here feels it's negative at the moment, but for whatever that's worth.
But he could be wrong.
No, we...
I think Pat's partly responsible for his problem.
Yeah, some of the, you know, I understand you were as shocked as I was when those raw files were all going to be made available to the committee.
You know, the thing that hacked me off a little bit about that, he knew generally what I was going to propose to the urban committee, you know.
Yeah.
You know, he generally knew that.
Did he?
Before he testified.
But Pat has gotten a little introspective about this.
Yeah.
Well, people do that.
Yeah.
I understand that.
It's awfully difficult to resist.
Yeah.
Is it with Weicker that you worked that thing out with him?
No problem.
But he's still written a letter, you know.
I know, but he was very nice about it on the telephone.
When did you talk to him?
Yesterday.
Yesterday.
For about an hour on the goddamn telephone.
Yeah.
Lowell said, if you're telling me that this is just a once-only policy of the Bureau because of the Watergate case, it's not going to be extended to anybody else, I have no problems.
I said, I can assure you that this is a once-only exception, even on this limited basis, with the Urban Committee and the Judiciary Committee.
At that point, he said, fine.
Once only in what respect you mean?
Well, once only that I would even let the chairman of the committee, the party leader, and the two council look at him.
We've never done that before, and we never will do it again.
No, you don't.
You never have done it before.
No, that even goes further, right?
Yeah.
We're doing it in order to be just as clear, yeah.
All right, then let's leave it this way.
You'll handle Baker now, huh?
You'll babysit him starting Mike in about 10 minutes?
Just like he's a brother.
All right.
I'll call him when I put the phone in.
Thank you, sir.
NARA Description
On March 22, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Richard G. Kleindienst talked on the telephone from 2:19 pm to 2:26 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 044-010 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 044-010
Date: March 22, 1973
Time: Unknown between 2:19 and 2:26 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Richard G. Kleindienst.
[See also Conversation No. 422-33B]
Watergate investigation
-Howard. H. Baker, Jr.
-William E. Timmons
-Desire to meet with Kleindienst
-Contact with White House staff
-Kleindienst as point of contact
-Meeting with Kleindienst
-Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.
-Telephone calls
-Bugging
-Administrative assistant’s complaints to Timmons
-Complaints
-Contact with administration
-Ideas about testimony
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-John W. Dean, III as White House liaison with Kleindienst
-L. Patrick Gray, III
-Kleindienst’s conversation with James O. Eastland
-Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.
-Difficulties in confirmation
-Lowell P. Weicker, Jr.
-Possible appointment to Second Circuit Court
-Confirmation prospects
-Eastland’s view
-Wallace H. Johnson’s view
-Responsibility
-Availability of raw files
-Ervin Committee
-Kleindienst’s conversation with Weicker
-Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] policy regarding availability of
Watergate information
-Ervin Committee
-House Judiciary Committee
-Baker
-Meeting with KleindienstAlso recorded on March 22, 1973
- 044-008 1:52 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:52 pm and 1:55 pm.
- 422-031 1:52 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:52 pm to 1:55 pm.
- 422-032 1:55 PM · 50 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:55 pm and 1:57 pm.
- 422-033 1:57 PM · 1 hr 32 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John W. Dean, III, John D. Ehrlichman, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and John N. Mitchell met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:57 pm and 3:43 pm.
- 044-009 2:01 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:01 pm and 2:19 pm.
- 044-011 2:26 PM · 8 sec — John W. Dean, III and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:26 pm and 3:28 pm.
- 044-012 2:26 PM · 28 sec — John W. Dean, III and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:26 pm and 3:28 pm.
- 044-013 2:26 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:26 pm and 3:28 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 044-010, March 22, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/044-010 (accessed October 1, 2026).