Conversation 044-058

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Mr. President, I have Mr. Haldeman.

Oh, thank you.

All right.

There you are.

Well, how'd you go along with the Wednesday clubbers?

Okay.

They went on for an hour and a half.

I know.

That's too bad.

Well, is it worthwhile, you think?

Yeah, I think it is.

It really is communication.

They're all, frankly, decent guys trying to do their best.

There's 27 guys who are usually the weakest members of our party, and...

But on the other hand, a lot of them feel...

They want to help.

A lot of them feel a close...

I think a lot of them really do feel a close, if not friendship, for me.

I don't know, but I think they do.

No question.

An awful lot of them do.

Marvel Hanson or whatever his name is.

Jerry Pettis, guys like that.

Even a lot of weak ones, Al Bell and people like that who want to be part of the group and they just aren't very...

What was the tenor of that question, Watergate?

No, they snibly asked the Watergate question in the middle of the thing, and I didn't get it answered.

Then they asked me at adjournment to take a few minutes on it if I would, and so I did.

What did you say on it?

On Watergate?

Yeah.

They said, what can you tell us about Watergate?

And I said, it's a tough thing to try and get into, but let me first of all give you the facts.

The fact is, as the president has very clearly said and repeated, there was nobody in the White House who was involved in the Watergate and in the planning of it or had any knowledge of it.

There obviously were some people at the committee for reelection who were involved because the thing was done.

That's now been established by the court.

But who did what is still a question that the court is trying to determine.

And it's a very difficult thing.

Then I decided to personalize it.

And I said, let me...

Just make the point to you that we're in a question where it's hard as hell to say I didn't do something that nobody said you did do.

And it's hard as hell to say I have stopped doing something that I never started doing.

And I said, in my own case, it's a damn tough thing to go down to breakfast in the morning and see a paper with your picture and headlines all over it saying that you were running a secret fund when you don't even know what they're talking about.

And your wife says, well, did you or didn't you?

And you don't know.

And then you find out that you weren't.

So you go out and deny it.

But they ignore the denial and go right on printing the allegation now as fact.

And I said, I know you guys all have the same problem in your own thing.

And it's just one of the prices we've got to pay.

But there's no question here of any wrongdoing on the part of the president or any of his staff.

And then you hit the cooperation point?

And I said, we've cooperated fully at the President's instructions, and because we were perfectly happy to do so, everybody who's in all the hearings, the FBI, the grand jury, the civil court hearing, the criminal trial, and now the grand jury's back again, and there's total cooperation.

I said, well, what about the Senate?

Are you going to cooperate there?

And I said, well, to be perfectly frank, I don't know what the Senate's doing.

And it doesn't look as if they do.

You've got Dash out here holding press conferences, and it's not at all clear what's involved there at this point.

And they kind of laughed and let it go at that.

They obviously don't have any love for the Senate.

So they didn't push the executive privilege question, and I didn't raise it.

Good.

Good deal.

But I did it very, I hit it.

Right on, as an honest.

And I hit it on a, I tried to do something and said, you know, what the hell would you guys do?

That's hard as hell to go out and say I don't beat my wife anymore.

That's what I want you to do with Weicker.

Yeah.

You get the dope on him, yeah.

I want to keep you from dinner, a couple of things.

I've been working, writing most of the afternoon.

I'm going to write some more tonight.

I, unless you feel very strongly on it, feel that because of some technical things on this or a couple on Vietnam and on the

And also on the price thing.

But I think I'd better do it at the desk.

But let me say that it'll be more like November 3rd than the others.

You see, November 3rd was when I just wrote everything out myself, and I'll deliver it more like that, if you know what I mean.

I don't think there's any problem with that.

And, you know, I'll be looking up at least, I would say, over half the time.

That'd be great.

How does that sound to you?

And I'll feel a little, I won't feel so pressed to have to get it all in my mind.

I was thinking about that.

You haven't really had enough time.

all the interruptions and distractions.

If I had four straight days, which I planned, that's what it takes me to really get something in my mind that I can get up there and do it to time.

I think I'll feel comfortable and confident.

And that'll show.

And I've read speeches before.

It may seem to go over pretty well.

Absolutely.

There's no problem with that at all.

And don't try to push yourself to look up all the time either.

Where you're comfortable reading it, stay reading it.

I think you're right.

And don't try to, you say you're going to look up half the time.

I wouldn't worry about looking up half the time.

I would urge that you try to find a couple areas in it where you can look up and look right into the camera to punch something home.

Yes.

Like when I say that... You've got a personal point.

When I say, for example, what I'm going to make on the amnesty point, I'm going to say... Good.

I'm going to say, and that is why, that let us...

let us not dishonor those who served America, served their country, by granting amnesty to those who deserted America.

And I'm going to look right in the camera and say that.

Isn't that the kind of thing you mean?

Exactly.

And when you're saying something that's not a statement of government policy, but a statement of personal conviction or appeal or anything of that sort, to the degree there that you can look into the camera, it's highly effective.

And it's more effective...

In a sense, because you're reading the rest.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I'm going to have to do it that way because I just...

I don't think that determines the benefit.

I can't get that...

I'd have to work half the night to get it done, and then I wouldn't look... No problem.

Then I'd look for two days.

I'm tired tomorrow.

That's the thing I'm concerned about.

I think I ought to...

you know work for a couple more hours tonight to to then get a good night's sleep hopefully well as you know that people sit there and they they do more looking to see if you look worried or nervous or concerned or happy or relaxed or confident than they do uh listening to precisely what the words are that you're saying and the confident president and on top of things is is more important than than the content of the speech

Do you feel that I should mention the fact that I'm going to, you know, of course, pay tribute to those who served and all those and so forth and so on, and I am going to say something about the people who stood firm, you know, when we had to make hard decisions.

Should I mention the fact that I had to make some hard decisions like Cambodia, et cetera, and go right down the line and say...

Especially if you do it in the non-self-serving way of saying those...

the appreciation for those who've held firm when we did have to make the hard decisions of Camp Ali and so forth.

In other words, you're thanking them rather than asking them to thank you.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And giving them the credit.

Right.

Without your help, we wouldn't have been able to do this.

That's the way I was doing it.

But you would make that point, would you?

Sure.

Now, I think the...

What we call the price school would say that's divisive to point out that some people opposed and did call for surrender, but God damn it.

Not if you don't hit that.

If you say that we had a lot of trouble because it was made harder because other people called for surrender, that would be divisive.

You wouldn't do that?

I wouldn't hit it that way, no.

I'd hit the positive side.

In order to make the point that they stood by, you've got to point out that there were some who called for surrender, you know.

You wouldn't do that.

Well, I don't know.

Maybe you should.

Maybe you've got to draw the line.

I think you have to draw some line there.

That would be divisive.

I was just targeting the question whether it's divisive.

If you do that, that is.

They're right.

That is divisive.

Who are you dividing there?

You're dividing the good guys from the bad guys, and what's wrong with that?

I think we have to do it.

The good guys are the 60%.

We've got to remember that there's a lot of people that did stand by and a lot of people that are still trying to sabotage it even after we got a damn thing done.

See, that's my point.

I won't say that, but I've got to leave the impression that, look, you fellows out there, the millions that stood by, without your help we couldn't have done it.

And I know it was difficult for you because you heard so many say that we should get out, and yet you stood by.

That's the way I was going to put it.

I wouldn't say so many say.

Make them a small minority.

Oh, yeah, I'll say a minority.

You heard some say.

Mm-hmm.

I'm going to say that their voices were loud, but they were a minority.

Yeah, yeah.

A great majority.

Yeah.

That's fine.

And I'm glad you feel that way, because I prefer, I'd like to do it the other way, and I could do it damn well.

I mean, even right now I could do it, but I just feel that... Don't try.

I feel that I might just be, appear to be, you know, trying to remember too hard.

That's not good.

Don't you think so?

Then you're trying to prove a point that nobody is looking to you to prove anyway.

They'd rather expect the president to read a speech.

Well, and especially since you're going into the thing of the economic stuff and all, which is, you know, it isn't just that the war is over and thanks a lot.

But now we've got a new challenge and a new battle, the battle of the budget, your budget, not the federal budget, which is what I'm going to say.

Right.

how we can fight the battle of prices and wages and taxes and so forth.

Okay.

Oh, you will, one thing I wanted to say, since we'll

You will follow up with, to be sure, that Colson is filled in?

Or how was that left, that Magruder was going to talk to him?

I'll check with him tomorrow.

I don't know whether Magruder is going to or not.

But you probably, Bob, should talk to Colson, don't you think?

Yeah, I think so.

He should know where we are and knows what's there.

That's right.

I will do that.

You have no further report from Dean today?

No.

We'll call him in a while and see if he's gotten any rundown on anything.

If you do get anything from him, if you'd give me a ring, I'd be helpful.

But, you know, don't interfere with your dinner and everything.

You've had a hell of a hard day.

Not at all.

I was telling Trish and Julie I came over tonight because, you know, they're alone.

And I said, well,

It's sort of a hard day, but I say, what the hell, we've had harder ones.

Sure have.

You know, really we have.

Let's face it, that December bombing, what could have been harder than that, you know, really?

We were alone then, you know.

And I think what you said this morning is rather interesting.

Well, of course, in the future, but...

What that rather revealing article by that, I didn't read it, by Whitcover or whatever it was.

Yeah.

It's rather interesting that he would point that out, isn't it?

Yep.

Yep, very much so.

But these guys said it tonight.

They said, you know, everybody, you feel like you need to have an explanation and all, but a number of them said, and they sort of all nodded, that there doesn't seem to be any great concern about it outside of here.

Right, right.

You're telling me we're going to work for the election of Republicans next?

Oh, yeah, we went through all that.

Which we're going to do, too.

I've been thinking a lot about that, and as I say, if the tea leaves come out all right, I will.

I mean, if it looks that way, even if it doesn't.

Hell, you know, I think of Truman in 1948.

You remember I told you, the only thing that came to mind, and I'd forgotten this, that Truman won in 1948.

after I had had his hearings, after he'd claimed the red herring, after we'd proved wrong.

And the reason was that he made other issues.

That's right.

And people were thinking about, well, God damn it, the lousy 80th Congress rather than the fact that he'd covered up the... Dewey never made that issue either.

Dewey didn't make that one, see.

But it does show you, though, that those things...

It depends what people are thinking about at the moment.

We've just got to continue right on the affirmative.

Absolutely.

So on and so on.

How do we stand, Bob, with regard to the next week?

Are we committed to the ballgame?

No, no.

How do you feel about it at the moment?

I'm not so sure it's a very good idea.

I don't know.

I'm not too keen on it, frankly.

You know, just going to the baseball game and so forth.

Kind of maybe see what the mood is by next week.

Yeah.

There's no commitment.

Mm-hmm.

They don't have any education.

It might be that I would do better.

The weather today, Tricia, of course, has got the weather forecast around 65 to 66 degrees out there, so it's going to be cold as hell.

It could warm up.

But anyway, whatever it is.

I might be better off to just go over to Palm Springs three days.

Yeah, well, that's what we talked about.

And, you know, get a little fresh air and relaxation and away from it all rather than running off to the baseball game.

It's getting warmer.

Tuesday was 59.

The high Wednesday is 62.

That's all right.

It's way up.

The sun is shining.

That's right.

Well, if you could give me a report on Dean, I'd appreciate it.

All right.