Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 044-078
Date: Thursday, March 29, 1973 at 5:35 PM
Participants: Ehrlichman, John D.; White House operator
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/044-078
National Archives Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417195693 (NAID 417195693)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:03] This is John Ehrlichman.
[0:04] Would you get John Dean at home for me, please?
[0:06] Yes, Mr. Ehrlichman.
[0:07] Thank you.
[0:08] Thank you.
[0:40] His line is busy.
[0:42] Okay.
[0:43] I mean, it may have another member, Mr. Ehrlichman, but the White House line is busy.
[0:46] Thank you.
[1:56] You are.
[1:57] Thank you.
[1:58] John?
[1:58] Yes.
[1:59] We're turning your call.
[2:01] You're in with the boss right now?
[2:02] Well, I just stepped out.
[2:03] Oh, okay.
[2:05] What I wanted to bring you up to date on, first of all, how would you handle the question if called
[2:14] Are you aware, either before or after the fact, of any meetings in the Attorney General's office?
[2:23] You'd have to answer that flat out, I would think.
[2:27] I mean, how would you answer it?
[2:29] You mean on the basis of hearsay?
[2:30] Yeah.
[2:31] I'd have to say I was aware that there had been some.
[2:33] I'd been told of one.
[2:35] Bob's in the same situation, right?
[2:37] Yeah, you told me about one.
[2:40] All these arguments that I should, you know, I'm getting a lot of pressure to go down and do something I'm not capable of doing.
[2:47] I'm assembling arguments of why it's infeasible to even consider it.
[2:52] Oh, well, I would never suggest to you that if you went, you would do anything but say what's true.
[2:58] I understand.
[2:59] I understand, but you understand the consequences of that.
[3:03] Well, and that was what I was trying to explore with you on the phone earlier.
[3:07] Well, what I was talking to O'Brien about a little bit further, and what it'll do is open a open war pithy match between Magruder, McGill, Dean, and the White House.
[3:26] The ultimate solution to this thing is, I mean, to deal with the problems from post as well as anything pre, is something that John Mitchell is unwilling to face.
[3:42] He has this lingering hope that he can pull this out.
[3:45] Mm-hmm.
[3:50] occurred to me.
[3:51] I don't know.
[3:52] Has the president ever talked this over with John?
[3:55] Not that I know of.
[4:00] I've mentioned this to Bob, too, that that might be the ultimate solution.
[4:06] My thought here is this, that regardless of what Mitchell's frame of mind is, sooner or later you're going to be subpoenaed to that grand jury.
[4:21] Maybe you don't agree with that.
[4:22] Well, that's what O'Brien is saying, and maybe it won't happen.
[4:25] He's following pretty closely the tidbits that are coming out in the press on McCool.
[4:29] The court apparently, upon close reading, has said that he understood that he was going to a meeting.
[4:38] He didn't actually say that he was at a meeting.
[4:40] This is reading too much into a press report.
[4:42] We haven't seen any transcripts or anything of that nature.
[4:49] I want to know, were you aware of Weicker's press conference?
[4:52] No.
[4:52] You were supposed to go out and criticize the press for the leaks.
[4:56] No, no.
[4:56] To the contrary, went out and praised them for the beautiful, diligent job they're doing on this whole thing, and that the fact of the matter was that the man that ultimately was responsible for this...
[5:10] in the White House today?
[5:11] Meaning whom?
[5:18] They didn't ask him?
[5:19] they didn't he wouldn't reveal names but he's done this independent investigation it's kind of a mccarthy type well yeah because you know we had klein deanston and gray get a hold of him and say what evidence do you have and he says oh i was just talking about the segretti business that's his latest
[5:40] and apparently it did not infer Dean.
[5:44] It was more of a feeling who picked this up from Gurney's man and said it was more like Haldeman.
[5:52] Well, I think...
[5:56] Really, the basic question here is one of prophecy as to whether or not you're going to be called or not.
[6:04] If you are, then obviously the best position to be in is that you volunteered.
[6:09] If you aren't, then O'Brien's...
[6:16] sort of like you, well, I can appreciate the fact you want to go down and cleanse your name, sort of willing to do that any time, but however, the grand jury has charged me with nothing right now.
[6:28] They denied everything.
[6:30] See, the angle would be one can't expect
[6:34] probity, fairness, and guarantees of rights before a committee of the Senate that does the kind of things this committee's done the last couple of days, my safe refuge is at the grand jury.
[6:46] Well, and I really wonder if now is the time to volunteer that.
[6:51] Well, of course, that's the question.
[6:52] That's the basic question.
[6:55] And I gather you and O'Brien feel that it is not.
[7:00] We've got to wait and see.
[7:01] There's always the chance I won't be called.
[7:03] Yeah, I see.
[7:03] Because they're working on about third-hand hearsay.
[7:06] But if you are, then it'll be too late.
[7:11] Cheer.
[7:14] The question is whether it's worth the trade.
[7:17] That's right.
[7:21] There we go.
[7:22] Obviously, we're not in a position to say you volunteered, unless you are.
[7:27] So why don't we sleep on it, see where we are first thing in the morning.
[7:31] Okay.
[7:32] Good.