Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 44 › Conversation 044-103
Nixon phone call with Ehrlichman on Watergate scandal and John W. Dean III
Sunday, April 8, 1973 · 7:33 PM–7:37 PM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min
AI Summary
John Ehrlichman updates President Nixon on a meeting with John Dean, who plans to cooperate with prosecutors and testify before a grand jury regarding the Watergate scandal. Dean intends to notify John Mitchell and Jeb Magruder of his decision to engage in informal discussions with investigators while maintaining that he possesses no information damaging to Mitchell. The participants discuss the potential for Magruder to serve as a volatile witness and the necessity for Dean to manage these communications carefully to ensure the White House is not perceived as attempting to influence testimony.
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Yes, sir.
Oh, John, hi.
Well, I just wanted to post John the Dean meeting, which went fine.
He is going to wait until after he's had a chance to talk with Mitchell and to pass the word to Magruder through his lawyers that he is going to appear at the grand jury.
His feeling is that Liddy has pulled the plug on Magruder.
He feels that.
He knows it.
Right.
He thinks he knows it now.
And he said that there's no love lost there and that that was Liddy's motive in communicating informally.
At the same time, he said there isn't anything that he, Dean, knows or could say that would in any way harm John Mitchell.
Right.
But it would harm Magruder.
Right.
And his feeling is that Sirica would not listen to a plea of immunity, of courage, I should say.
And that he would be much better off.
to go down there and have an informal conference, and that's what he wants to do.
So obviously we didn't tell him not to, but we did say that it was important that the other people knew what he was doing.
Mitchell, of course, is going to be put to the prod on this one.
That's right.
Mitchell has got to decide whether he's going to tell John Dean, look here, I don't think you ought to say a word, or you've got to go down and lie.
John is not going to lie.
He says John Mitchell...
is sort of living in a dream world right now.
He thinks this is all going to go away.
He thinks that?
Yeah.
John Dean thinks that Mitchell's living in a dream world?
Yeah.
He thinks that that's Mitchell's frame of mind on all of this.
For instance, he hasn't bothered to retain counsel.
He hasn't really done much about preparing himself or anything of this kind.
But what does Dean think about it?
Well, Dean says it isn't going to go away.
It's right on top of us, and that the smartest thing that he, Dean, can do is go down there and appear cooperative.
Right.
So he'll be around all day tomorrow, and we'll see how this unfolds during the day.
Did you give him your theory about the Magruder thing as to what he ought to do?
Yes, and he said, well, the thing that I didn't understand was that Magruder was the target of the Long Liddy discussion.
there wasn't anything that he, Dean, could add.
No, no, no, but what about the theory, your idea that Magruder ought to come in and say, look, my recollection has been refreshed.
Yeah, but he said that he's satisfied that they're not really after Magruder on perjury.
They're after him, somebody as the instigator of the plot.
I see.
What does he think that McGritter will do?
Well, nobody knows.
McGritter could be the loose cannon.
That's the whole point.
He's highly vulnerable, and nobody knows.
But Dean's very strong feeling is that this is the time when you have to just let it flow.
I tend to agree with him, you know.
Do you?
Yes, I do.
Because basically...
Mitchell must say he's going hard on it, John, and so forth.
We cannot claim privilege for Dean on this kind of a matter, can we?
I don't believe on acts prior to the investigation, no.
That's what they're asking for.
Dean says, look, I'll be very careful and so forth.
So where do we go from there?
Then he pulls the plug on Magruder.
But then the point that John Mitchell's got to be concerned about Magruder, pull the plug on him.
Well, that's right.
That's right.
That's correct.
That's correct.
Because the next question, John, they're going to ask McGruder is, did you close anybody who gave the final approval?
Obviously.
Now, McGruder, I don't think, strangely enough, he's going to pull a plug.
He's going to pull a Mitchell rather than Haldeman.
Well, that's right.
And that's the reason that we felt out of not only fairness, but also in order to make sure that nobody thought that the White House was buying them, that...
John ought to talk to these fellas and let them know what it is he's intending to do.
When does he have to decide this?
Well, he has to get in touch with them tonight, and he thought that he probably would see them tomorrow night.
See, they prepare their case at night and work the jury during the day.
So he'll tell them that tomorrow night I'll talk to you, and tonight he says, what's he going to say tonight?
Well, he just says, give me an appointment tomorrow night.
Oh, and he'll go over and see him.
Yeah.
All right.
I think he has to do that.
That's right.
All right, sir.
But he's got to lay it off pretty hard with Mitchell that he hasn't got any choice on this, that he will not testify to anything afterward, the fact that he will not testify to anything.
He'll be damned careful.
He protects everybody.
Is that what he's going to say?
Because he don't want Mitchell to know popping off.
Well, he's going to just say to John that he's certainly not going to look for...
Right.
He's not going to look, but he's going to avoid it.
He, Dean, doesn't really know anything that jeopardizes John.
Right, right.
Which is true.
Right.
Now, who's going to talk to Magruder?
Dean's lawyer.
He's going to talk to Magruder's lawyer.
And tell him what the hell is he going to tell him, though?
Tell him that John's been invited to come down for informal conferences and that he's going to have to go.
That's right.
So what does that do to Magruder?
Well, that undoubtedly concerns him, but it also alerts him in the...
in the most orderly kind of way.
Right.
But John Dean says McGridder can't get off by going in and confessing to the perjury.
No, no.
He says that's not really what they're after.
They want to convict him for Watergate.
Right.
So if he confesses perjury, he's going to be convicted for Watergate, right?
Both.
Are they getting for both, then?
Both, yeah.
Well, no, not under your version of the law.
Well, I'm afraid that if he goes down and testifies, I would guess what he'll try and do is plead some sort of constitutional protection, Fifth Amendment or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I would think.
Yeah.
He better plead the Fifth Amendment.
I don't think he's got any other choice.
Doesn't sound like it to me.
Right.
Okay.
You'll let me know tomorrow after Urban.
I won't hear from you otherwise.
I'll let you know after Schultz.
Yeah.
Okay.
Bye.
NARA Description
On April 8, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:33 pm and 7:37 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 044-103 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 044-103
Date: April 8, 1973
Time: Unknown between 7:33 pm and 7:37 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Ehrlichman between 7:33 pm and 7:37 pm.
[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation may be found in Richard M. Nixon,
Submission of Recorded Presidential Conversations to the Committee on the Judiciary of the
House of Representatives (Washington, DC: GPO, 1974), 401-407 (1-7).]
John D. Ehrlichman's meeting with John W. Dean, III
-John N. Mitchell
-Jeb Stuart Magruder
-Appearance at grand jury
-G. Gordon Liddy
-Possible testimony
-Mitchell
-Magruder
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-John J. Sirica
-Plea of immunity
-Mitchell
-Dean's opinion
-Retention of counsel
-Dean's cooperation
-Ehrlichman's theory on Magruder
-Liddy
-Dean
-Magruder's recollections
-Perjury
-Instigation of Watergate
-Magruder
-Volatility
-Dean’s opinion
-Mitchell
-Executive privilege
-Dean
-Magruder and Mitchell
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-Dean's meeting with prosecutors
-Testimony for events after burglary
-Mitchell
-Dean's lawyer to talk to Magruder's lawyer
-Magruder
-Perjury
-Break-in
-Plea of Fifth Amendment
[End of transcript]Also recorded on April 9, 1973
- 044-162 7:27 PM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 7:37 pm.
- 044-163 7:27 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 7:37 pm.
- 044-104 7:37 PM · 35 sec — Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:37 pm and 8:14 pm.
- 044-105 7:37 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:37 pm and 8:14 pm.
- 044-106 8:14 PM · 44 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 8:14 pm.
- 891-001 9:47 AM · 1 hr 48 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:47 am to 11:49 am.
- 891-011 11:49 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:49 am and 3:01 pm.
- 044-107 12:01 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:01 pm and 12:07 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 044-103, April 9, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/044-103 (accessed October 5, 2026).