{"conversationCode":"044-117","tapeNumber":44,"conversationNumber":117,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-044-117","startDateTime":"1973-04-10T01:21:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-04-10T01:23:00.000Z","startDate":"9-Apr-1973","startTime":"8:21 PM","endDate":"9-Apr-1973","endTime":"8:23 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.;","description":"On April 9, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 8:21 pm to 8:23 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 044-117 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 044-117\n\nDate: April 9, 1973\nTime: 8:21 pm-8:23 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 425-48]\n\n       Watergate\n            -Ehrlichman’s instructions for Leonard Garment\n                   -John W. Dean, III\n                         -Written interrogatories\n                         -Sworn statements\n            -Ehrlichman’s conversation with unknown senator regarding Dean\n\n       Ehrlichman's conversation with Pierre Rinfret\n             -Need for economic spokesman\n                   -Arthur F. Burns\n                   -John B. Connally\n                   -George P. Shultz\n             -Rinfret’s meeting with Ehrlichman\n                   -Rinfret’s memorandum\n                   -Shultz and Herbert Stein’s paper","filename":["044-117.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ehrlichman, John D."],"prevCode":"044-116","nextCode":"044-118","transcript":[{"start":1.43,"end":1.91,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":2.73,"end":11.67,"text":"I think with Garment, if you would instruct him with a really hard line that we cannot give on Dean going down."},{"start":12.87,"end":17.88,"text":"Otherwise, John, I was just thinking of the story that comes out when you go out Thursday, the White House caves on everything."},{"start":17.92,"end":20.44,"text":"In other words, we've got to hold on some."},{"start":20.52,"end":20.84,"text":"All right."},{"start":21.06,"end":23.08,"text":"And so I think we should hold on Dean."},{"start":23.41,"end":23.96,"text":"All right."},{"start":23.98,"end":27.65,"text":"And we will answer anything on him on written interrogatories."},{"start":28.71,"end":28.93,"text":"All right."},{"start":28.95,"end":29.73,"text":"And..."},{"start":30.76,"end":32.18,"text":"You don't think that'll hold?"},{"start":32.55,"end":33.53,"text":"Oh, I think it'll hold."},{"start":33.55,"end":35.58,"text":"I mean, they don't have much choice, you know."},{"start":36.16,"end":38.58,"text":"And I said, you know, we'll take a lawsuit on this."},{"start":38.92,"end":40.99,"text":"And the dean will cover in written interrogatories."},{"start":41.41,"end":44.06,"text":"And he'll give sworn statements."},{"start":44.36,"end":45.78,"text":"any involvement."},{"start":46.39,"end":47.81,"text":"But tell Garment that's the deal."},{"start":47.83,"end":48.07,"text":"All right."},{"start":48.41,"end":57.39,"text":"Yeah, I said to the senator, you know, do you really want to sue us when we're ready, willing, and able to give you all the information?"},{"start":57.89,"end":61.27,"text":"And the only thing we won't do is send our fellow up there for a television circus?"},{"start":61.84,"end":69.83,"text":"And so he said, well, you know, I don't want a confrontation with the president under any circumstances, and so on and so forth."},{"start":69.85,"end":71.33,"text":"Okay, but tell Garment that's it."},{"start":71.53,"end":71.78,"text":"I will."},{"start":72.24,"end":75.5,"text":"I forgot to tell you, I talked to Renfray this afternoon."},{"start":75.86,"end":76.78,"text":"He wanted to freeze everything."},{"start":76.8,"end":80.41,"text":"Well, he wants to submit something in writing, and he'll have it down here Wednesday."},{"start":80.49,"end":84.83,"text":"But his major point is that it's a question of confidence."},{"start":84.81,"end":93.62,"text":"and that we need a spokesman that we don't have, that we need somebody like Connolly to articulate our policy."},{"start":93.84,"end":96.52,"text":"He doesn't think that Schultz can do it."},{"start":96.56,"end":97.86,"text":"No, he's pretty tough on Schultz."},{"start":101.23,"end":102.71,"text":"So he may be right about that."},{"start":102.83,"end":103.45,"text":"You think so?"},{"start":103.47,"end":103.83,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":103.85,"end":105.41,"text":"Well, you know, we've talked about that before."},{"start":105.43,"end":106.51,"text":"It's a problem."},{"start":106.53,"end":107.17,"text":"There's no question."},{"start":107.61,"end":110,"text":"And nobody's out there really sort of that people believe."},{"start":110.06,"end":110.62,"text":"That's right."},{"start":111.27,"end":114.12,"text":"So that was his major point."},{"start":114.86,"end":118.28,"text":"His substantive point, he said he'd like to give me in writing."},{"start":118.32,"end":120.27,"text":"He said he was having trouble contacting you."},{"start":120.29,"end":121.47,"text":"And I said, well, look, I'm here."},{"start":121.51,"end":122.59,"text":"You can call me any time."},{"start":123.51,"end":124.63,"text":"So he said, fine."},{"start":124.67,"end":125.63,"text":"He was grateful for that."},{"start":126.02,"end":129.22,"text":"And so he'll have something here by messenger on Wednesday afternoon."},{"start":131.02,"end":131.26,"text":"Okay."},{"start":131.28,"end":134.89,"text":"With regard to that, then, there's nothing for me to do tomorrow."},{"start":135.09,"end":135.43,"text":"Is that right?"},{"start":135.63,"end":136.13,"text":"That's right."},{"start":136.87,"end":139.36,"text":"putting their feet to the fire and so forth."},{"start":139.54,"end":145.55,"text":"As a matter of fact, I think what we ought to do is hold Herb and George's paper until we get Renfray's, and then we'll have both."},{"start":145.57,"end":146.8,"text":"Okay, fine."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss a strategy to avoid a high-profile, public confrontation regarding John Dean by refusing to send him to testify before the Senate. They decide that Leonard Garment should adopt a hard line, offering only written interrogatories and sworn statements instead of a television appearance. Additionally, they discuss economic policy, specifically the need for a more effective public spokesperson than George Shultz, and agree to wait for a memorandum from Pierre Rinfret before finalizing administration economic papers.","topics":["Watergate scandal","John W. Dean III","Leonard Garment","Congressional testimony","Economic policy","Pierre Rinfret"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T06:55:39.883Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate-scandal","john-w-dean-iii","leonard-garment","congressional-testimony","economic-policy","pierre-rinfret"],"audioDurationSec":148,"audioFiles":[{"file":"044-117.mp3","bytes":5926912,"durationSec":148.05,"bitrate":320270,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:30.403Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:44.256Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/044-117.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/044-117","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/44/conversation-044-117","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}