Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 44 › Conversation 044-129

Nixon phone call with Arends on Veto power and Congressional relations

Tuesday, April 10, 1973 · 3:26 PM–3:30 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Arends, Leslie C.Conversation044-129 on Tape 44StartTuesday, April 10, 1973 at 3:26 PMEndTuesday, April 10, 1973 at 3:30 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 044-129 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Representative Leslie C. Arends discuss the successful effort to sustain a recent presidential veto, noting high morale among congressional supporters and attributing the shift in legislative favor to increased public pressure regarding taxes and government spending. The two men plan a reception for the 'veto crowd' to celebrate this legislative win and coordinate speakers for the event. Additionally, they touch upon upcoming legislative challenges, specifically opposition to the Patman bill, and address growing concerns regarding the national energy crisis and gasoline shortages.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
You did even better than you'd said.
That was a great job.
Wasn't that terrific?
How do the boys feel?
Oh, they're just hilarious.
I don't know whether you got the word.
I tried to call Jerry also.
He's gone, apparently.
He's gone.
He left.
He had to go to Michigan.
I thought it would be a nice thing, even though we had most of the same fellows down for the thing, Thursday afternoon about 5.30.
How's that sound to you?
Oh, that'd be great.
I'm going to have the 36 senators, too.
Yeah, sure.
In other words, we'll call it the veto crowd.
That's right, the veto crowd.
These boys are high right now.
They feel good?
Oh, gosh, they really are.
And we had five or six of them who waited until the very last, within the last minute, and they would have stayed with us if they have to.
See, by getting 189, hell, but five or six more, you've darn near had as many as the other side.
Yeah, we had 161 Republicans, and I had a figure we'd get 158, but we got a few more.
And the Senate suddenly did better.
They got 25.
24, and we picked up some in the Middle West, yeah.
So we're very, very... What's the reason?
Earlier, you know, you remember when you and...
Remember, we all met with you and the rest.
Well, you weren't there that day, but there they were about these vetoes.
This was about two months ago.
What's changed?
Well, I tell you what, as I said on television a moment ago, I went on television, WGN in Chicago, and I said, well, this means that the boys are beginning to read their mail.
People will not put up with any more taxes, and that's what they're going to get unless we save the money like the president wants.
And this is a simple statement.
You know, I, as you noticed, probably remember, but I hit it very hard in that television address I made on the Vietnam.
It was direct.
It was good.
And it's starting to show up.
Now they're trying to, my mail is, telegrams are piled deep here on my desk, and now I'm trying to kill this Patman bill, see?
It's coming up the day after tomorrow.
That's a bad, bad bill.
Well, that's a bad bill.
In fact, I'll have to veto the damn thing.
Yeah, sure you'll have to veto it, and we could surely sustain it.
Now they're going to have to get this message pretty soon and cut this out.
Well, I'm very happy with that.
It's shaking them up, huh?
Oh, yeah.
This did Joe.
Chip O'Neill was sitting there like he lost his last friend.
Well, the way it'll be, then, we'll invite the 189 less and the 36 senators and about 530, and I'll come in like I did before and speak about five minutes.
Now, should I call one or two of you fellows to speak on this occasion?
Maybe have Hugh say a word and Jerry say a word.
That'd be all right, yeah.
Maybe Hugh and Jerry, and then shouldn't I pick...
Maybe a couple of Southerners.
We'll get a couple of Southerners.
Joe Wagner and one more.
Wagner, and who would I get on the Democratic side?
There are five Democrats on the Senate side.
Let me go through the list, and I'll tell Bill Timmons.
You give Bill a recommendation as to who it ought to be.
I'll give him a recommendation, yeah.
All right, Les.
Fine.
We'll see you.
Let me, this morning on that meeting up there, I was terribly pleased at Wilbur's cooperative spirit.
He was very good.
Well, part of that is that, you know, we have really been working.
I mean, I've talked to him in advance, and I've talked to Russell in advance, and George Schultz has, and that helped, didn't it?
Oh, you betcha not.
You could see he was open.
And we get that bill through the House the way we want it.
It would be hard for them over in the Senate not to do it.
I was pleased when I left there, yeah.
All right.
Well, this right from now on, as you know, we're having mainly bipartisan things, but we're going to put plenty of wild cards in, so a lot of our Republicans are going to know all these meetings, too.
The energy one, I think next Wednesday I may have it in the dining room and have maybe...
50, 60, because it's such a big group we ought to have.
You know, that thing's tough.
I mean, I had a fellow call yesterday.
He said he had to close up 12 of his gasoline stations.
Oh, boy.
He said, I know these big boys have got gas, but we can't get it.
I don't know whether they do or whether they don't, but, I mean, it's getting real tough on them, and the question is whether these farmers are going to have enough to go in the field and work.
That's what we're going after.
Yeah, that's what we have to go after, yeah.
All right.
All right.
Thanks, Mr. President.
Bye.
You see you.

NARA Description

On April 10, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Leslie C. Arends talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:26 pm and 3:30 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 044-129 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 044-129

Date: April 10, 1973
Time: 3:26 pm-3:30 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Leslie C. Arends.

[See also Conversation No. 426-35]

       Vote sustaining a veto
             -Gerald R. Ford
                   -Michigan

       Thursday afternoon reception
            -Veto
            -Congressional supporters

       Mood of House Republicans
           -Numbers voting to sustain

       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542

             -Mood two months ago
                  -Meeting with Hugh Scott [?]
                  -Veto
             -Arends’s television [TV] message
                  -Taxes
                  -Budget cuts

       President's address on Vietnam
             -Mail to Arends

       Patman bill
            -Debt limit
            -President's veto

       Vote sustaining a veto
             -Thomas P. (“Tip”) O'Neill, Jr.'s reaction
             -Thursday afternoon reception
                   -Scott
                   -Ford
                   -Joe D. Waggonner, Jr.
                   -William E. Timmons

       Bipartisan meeting on trade issues
             -Wilbur D. Mills
             -Russell B. Long
             -George P. Shultz

       Energy meeting
            -Location
            -Gasoline shortage

Also recorded on April 10, 1973

  • 044-128 3:25 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 3:25 pm.
  • 426-034 3:25 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 3:25 pm.
  • 426-035 3:26 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Leslie C. Arends met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:26 pm to 3:30 pm.
  • 044-130 3:33 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 3:33 pm.
  • 044-131 3:33 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 3:33 pm.
  • 044-132 3:33 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Joe D. Waggonner, Jr. talked on the telephone from 3:33 pm to 3:34 pm.
  • 426-036 3:33 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 3:33 pm.
  • 426-037 3:33 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:33 pm and 3:34 pm.

All 81 conversations from April 10, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 044-129, April 10, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/044-129 (accessed October 5, 2026).