← 045-002045-004 →

Conversation 045-003

TapeTape 45StartThursday, April 26, 1973 at 12:16 PMEndThursday, April 26, 1973 at 12:21 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kleindienst, Richard G.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On April 26, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Richard G. Kleindienst talked on the telephone from 12:16 pm to 12:21 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 045-003 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 45-3

Date: April 26, 1973
Time: 12:16 pm - 12:21 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Richard G. Kleindienst.

[See also Conversation No. 905-17]
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             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              (rev. October-2012)

                                                        Conversation No. 45-3 (cont’d)

Tax legislation
      -Meeting
      -House Ways and Means Committee
      -President’s schooling

Watergate
     -Kleindienst’s conversations with Henry E. Petersen and Kevin T. Maroney
      concerning Ellsberg break-in
           -Petersen’s and Maroney’s conversation with David R. Nissen
           -Presentation to Judge
           -Prosecutor’s knowledge
           -Brady case, Supreme Court case

Wounded Knee incident
    -Need for decision
          -President’s meeting with Kleindienst
    -John C. Whitaker, Leonard Garment, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.
          -Interior Department, Justice Department
    -Law enforcement problems
    -Possible response
    -President’s meeting with Kleindienst
          -Bureau of Indian Affairs
          -Preliminary materials
                 -Cole
    -Loss of life
          -Justice Department’s plan
                 -Defense Department
                       -Use of gas
    -Theft of weapons from Denver depot
    -Public involvement
          -Students
    -Activists’ weakness
    -Letter from George S. McGovern
          -Support for action
          -South Dakota
          -Cole
    -President’s meeting with Kleindienst
          -Stephen B. Bull
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. October-2012)
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
The Attorney General, Mr. President.
Hi.
Mr. President, sir.
Hello.
Hello, Mr. President.
How are you feeling this morning?
Just fine, sir.
Fine.
Oh, great.
Just finished a two-hour meeting on taxes.
Boy, that's a tough one.
Yeah, we've got to present our tax position for the Ways and Means Committee Monday.
So, boy, if you think what you're doing is complicated, you ought to get into that one for about 18 different things.
Sure, that's good.
I majored in taxes many years ago.
College.
I know a little about it, but I don't know.
I could never even pass the first day's test today.
It's changed so much.
I know it.
All right.
I was just going to ask if you'd gotten that message through last night.
I did.
Who did you talk to?
Well, he made it through Peterson and Maroney, and then I talked to them both this morning.
They had talked to Nissen.
Right.
And he will be in court before the judge sometime this morning.
Right.
Just because of the change of time.
Right.
And what did they, what did they, in effect, tell him?
Well, they, in effect, told him, one, to make the disclosure, number two, to be sure to impress upon the judge, vis-a-vis the in-camera nature of the proceeding, you know, the national security sensitivity, the extreme sensitivity of it.
What we are hopeful of doing is to make the presentation, have the judge
not interrupt the trial, go ahead through the trial, and then, depending upon the verdict of the jury, have a hearing on it to determine whether there was any taint in the evidence after the trial.
That is the most optimum, best way to handle it.
Yeah, well, it's the right thing to do.
And, of course, the prosecutor is acute.
He himself is the best witness to the fact that he didn't know a damn thing about it.
Oh, sure.
Oh, my.
Isn't that correct?
Oh, yeah, there's no problem.
Nobody knew.
There's evidence obtained in it.
One of those damn dry holes.
That's right.
But under the last decision of the Supreme Court, the Brady case imposes a duty on the government.
It used to not be that way.
It is now.
Yeah.
Hey, Mr. President, while I have you for a minute.
I'm glad you did that.
I meant to talk to you briefly about it yesterday.
We're just about coming up to
a decision in this wounded knee thing.
I have been exercising great restraint in that area ever since it began.
But two or three weeks, ten days, some time or another, we're going to have to have Fisher cut bait out there.
And I'd like some time to, when it's convenient for you, to come over and talk to you about it.
Sure, Dave.
In our group, I guess the one in the interior, it's Whitaker that's been working on it, isn't it?
And Garment, right?
Garment.
Who all?
Ken Cole.
Len Garment, minister, but primarily over the Department of Justice.
Up to now, it's been a...
It's been in more departments.
You know, a restraining law enforcement problem.
I know.
If any decision is to go in there and terminate it, we're going to have to do it.
I'd like to do this, Dick.
If you would, I'd like to talk to you about it.
I think if you would, you bring in with you whatever ones you think will give me an order, because I've got to know what the damned...
Indian Department thinks, and you know what I mean.
But your judgment is the one that will be decisive, I can assure you.
I have preliminary materials over to Ken Cole.
I know, yeah.
Ken is a superb fellow.
Cole's a superb fellow.
He gets everything in here, don't worry.
But it's a tough decision, and the only thing I'm concerned about is just getting somebody killed.
and aren't you with no plan that would give us any assurance that somebody will not get killed sure and that's why i just kept them you know away from pushing any precipitous events but part of our problem is you know uh if that's true we might delay this thing under circumstances where more people will you know i don't necessarily believe that somebody will get killed what we do is have a plan that we've worked out very carefully with the department of defense that would
contemplate the massive use of gas.
But among other things, four machine guns were stolen from a depot in Denver last week.
There's a march of people coming on, and you've got summer coming up, and you've got these campuses coming up.
They're in the weakest position that they are.
Senator McGovern has sent us a letter broadcast in which he thinks that we've now exercised all the restraint necessary.
Is he calling on you to act?
Yeah.
McGovern?
Either you do it or the people of South Dakota will have to do it.
In other words, to go in and get them?
Yeah.
Oh, sure.
All right.
That's the situation just about right.
Well, that's right.
If you get that sort of thing, that's pretty good.
I sent over to Ken Cole that letter from McGovern, which I think you ought to read.
I will.
Well, you get a hold of Steve Cabot whenever, you know, you think is the right day, and I'm available.
Well, then let's tentatively think about it sometime in the middle of next week.
All right.
Okay, sir.
Good deal.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
Well, Dick.
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