On May 1, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 11:24 pm to 11:30 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 045-123 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello?
Yes, sir.
Oh, Ron, on this special prosecutor business, I know you're probably getting queries.
It's a very hard line.
Well, the president said in his address that the attorney general has the right to appoint a special prosecutor.
You know, as I said that.
Yes, sir, and I made that point in the briefing today, and I'm making again.
I wouldn't, I mean, the Senate's only expressed the view of the Senate, you know, the sense of the Senate doesn't mean a goddamn thing.
That's right.
So stand firm.
Yes, sir.
Don't be concerned about the press comments.
We expected them to be negative.
That's right.
They're not all negative, I guess.
No, it's sort of I was watching the news on Metromedia now.
It's kind of a sorting out period.
It's not a hard charge.
It's more of a, you know, reporting like the, well, of course, the congressional action, but it's not a belligerent report.
Also, the country's reaction is pretty goddamn good, I think, from what I heard.
But I don't know what they're reporting from the country.
What are they reporting?
Well, I don't think there's any question about the fact that everyone you talk to, everyone you bump into, you know, towards the president has a— I just say that—I mean, it counts, but just say it's overwhelmingly favorable.
What did you say in the briefing?
They said, What sort of reaction are you getting?
I said, The phone calls are very supportive, and I didn't use favorable.
I said, Very supportive and backing the president in this matter.
And they took it down.
All right.
Well, take a hard line to mark, because Richardson's going to have to present this to the Congress.
Hell, that's the only thing I can do.
I can't appoint a special prosecutor.
You start all over again.
Take three months to get the goddamn case.
You know, try it again.
That's the point I'm taking, you know, with the press.
Although they're not asking a lot of questions about it, but just what I'm talking to them.
When they say tomorrow, say, well, look, this process is now coming in.
There's going to be some action.
And the new attorney general has given total authority to appoint a special prosecutor.
if that, I mean, as he, whatever he thinks is necessary to get them back.
The thing is, the investigation should not stop and then have to start all over, particularly with such a massively intensive investigation that's gone on.
The investigation should continue on.
Yes, but the Attorney General can have a special prosecutor, so he's got to prosecute the people that are sure.
And he has that authority.
just say, oh, yes, we don't object to the Senate resolution at all.
It's just that the Attorney General of the Senate resolution wants the President to appoint one.
The hell with that.
I'm not going to appoint any special prosecutor.
I mean, after all, my people are being investigated.
It's up to the Attorney General.
Right.
That's what the point we made.
We'll continue to make that.
Yes, sir.
All right.
Take a firm line, old boy.
Yes, sir.
I feel... Don't be discouraged.
I'm not.
I feel very...
Some would say that maybe we should have...
We didn't get anything out of the damn thing, but I think we did.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Oh, it was necessary, Mr. President.
Absolutely necessary.
It had to be done.
No one quarrels with that.
I have not heard any second guessing on the decision.
I'm not just speaking of the decision, but also going on the air and explaining it.
Well, that was, I think, the right move to make.
The right move to make.
Yeah, I think the honest members of the press felt it was effective too, don't they?
Yes.
I talked to Horner today, not so much for his—but just to see what the guys were saying.
And I don't know if I mentioned to you last night, Horner told me that Ted Knapp, last night after watching his speech and on his way out, said, Well, I'm going to go write my column.
And Horner said, what direction are you taking?
And he said, well, a positive line.
He said, I think it was a positive step.
And the private mood amongst them.
Gerald, I mentioned, is very good.
Forrest Boyd is a good bellwether.
He's always positive.
He's always positive.
Fay Wells is very good.
John Apple, his attitude is good.
You know, Phil Patrick's attitude is good.
You know, I had to do what we said was going to come up on the Washington Post and, you know, it followed on your remarks last night and so forth.
But I think it's put him in at least a point where the situation can be stabilized the way it should be.
moving to a position that we had anticipated, that this would not solve the problem, but that it would be done in order to... Of course, the Senate moving this way was a goddamn bad thing to happen.
No one's going to pay much attention to that, I'm thinking.
That's just a part of the overall mix of things.
Yeah, but just make clear that that's no problem.
Attorney General, can...
find a special prosecutor and he's considering that.
Right.
Okay.
Okay, sir.