{"conversationCode":"045-155","tapeNumber":45,"conversationNumber":155,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-045-155","startDateTime":"1973-05-03T01:08:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-05-03T01:10:00.000Z","startDate":"2-May-1973","startTime":"9:08 PM","endDate":"2-May-1973","endTime":"9:10 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On May 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:08 pm to 9:10 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 045-155 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 45-155\n\nDate: May 2, 1973\nTime: 9:08 pm - 9:10 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n     Ziegler’s morale\n           -American Society of Newspaper Editors [ASNE] dinner\n\n     Watergate\n          -Egil (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr.\n                -Ziegler’s press conference\n                       -National security\n          -Ziegler’s previous press briefing\n                -Daniel Ellsberg trial\n          -Krogh\n                -Justice Department’s knowledge\n                -President’s knowledge\n                       -Conversation with John W. Dean, III\n\n*****************************************************************\n[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]\n\n     John B. Connally’s switch of party affiliation\n          -Press reaction\n          -Timing\n          -Spiro T. Agnew\n\n[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]\n*****************************************************************\n\n     Ziegler’s previous press briefing\n           -Agnew\n           -Announcement of Domestic Council Vice Chairman\n\f                                               -97-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                           Conversation No. 45-155 (cont’d)\n\n     President’s schedule\n           -Vacation","filename":["045-155.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"045-154","nextCode":"045-156","transcript":[{"start":0.71,"end":1.33,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":1.35,"end":3.53,"text":"Mr. Preston, I have Mr. Ziegler calling in now."},{"start":3.65,"end":4.85,"text":"Okay, thank you."},{"start":7.27,"end":8.15,"text":"Mr. Preston's on the line."},{"start":8.21,"end":8.89,"text":"Hello, Ron."},{"start":9.79,"end":11.7,"text":"Just wanted to be sure your spirit was up."},{"start":12.06,"end":12.72,"text":"Oh, it sure is."},{"start":13.48,"end":14.06,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":14.08,"end":16.42,"text":"I'm at the AS&E dinner over here tonight."},{"start":16.44,"end":17.26,"text":"Fine."},{"start":17.28,"end":27.49,"text":"You know, on this probe story, this and that, you know, you just play the national security line and this and that because we're really guiltless on this, you know."},{"start":27.71,"end":28.01,"text":"Good God."},{"start":28.17,"end":28.99,"text":"I'm sure of that."},{"start":29.38,"end":30.2,"text":"I know that."},{"start":30.22,"end":31.04,"text":"How are you going to handle it?"},{"start":31.36,"end":46.78,"text":"Well, the way I handled the thing today in terms of the thing out in the Ellsberg trial was simply that I'm not prepared to comment on it because it's not before the courts and I don't want to prejudice the rights of the prosecution and the rights of innocent people."},{"start":47.74,"end":49.66,"text":"That seems to be a pretty good holding line."},{"start":49.7,"end":51.24,"text":"Right."},{"start":51.46,"end":58.79,"text":"I don't think we have— As a matter of fact, what happened here, of course, as you know, is that all of this information has been in the hands of the"},{"start":59.7,"end":61.9,"text":"Justice Department?"},{"start":61.92,"end":62.66,"text":"Yeah, for months."},{"start":62.97,"end":63.37,"text":"Correct."},{"start":63.39,"end":69.97,"text":"Shit, they're doing about this goddamn thing, and I didn't learn about it until March, and Dean told me."},{"start":70.73,"end":79.31,"text":"Well, I know that, but also you weren't aware that John was aware of it until later than that."},{"start":79.33,"end":87.08,"text":"Well, you know, when I found out about it, I asked John, and he said, yes, it happened, but we turned it over to the Justice Department to see."},{"start":87.44,"end":90.31,"text":"But I want you to know that that was a fact, and that's it."},{"start":90.35,"end":90.71,"text":"Oh, I know that."},{"start":90.77,"end":91.81,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":91.93,"end":92.05,"text":"Okay."},{"start":92.73,"end":94.5,"text":"Well, I think we're in good shape."},{"start":96.04,"end":98.04,"text":"This is sorting itself out, and I think it did well."},{"start":99.48,"end":100.98,"text":"The colony thing got a good play, didn't it?"},{"start":101,"end":101.67,"text":"Yes, it sure did."},{"start":102.21,"end":102.71,"text":"Sure did."},{"start":102.73,"end":105.95,"text":"And I offered some remarks that you were pleased that he had joined the party."},{"start":105.97,"end":110.08,"text":"The man who served well in the administration, and you had welcomed him."},{"start":110.66,"end":111.98,"text":"You know, you were, of course, welcomed."},{"start":112.3,"end":114.74,"text":"Smart move, you know, on his part."},{"start":114.76,"end":115.46,"text":"Oh, it's brilliant."},{"start":115.72,"end":117.59,"text":"It's moving at this point, but it's low."},{"start":117.91,"end":118.15,"text":"Right."},{"start":118.35,"end":122.31,"text":"By God, you know, they're all going to remember it, aren't they?"},{"start":122.33,"end":125.4,"text":"That's right."},{"start":125.42,"end":128.06,"text":"It was a very good move on his part."},{"start":128.08,"end":133.77,"text":"The Agnew thing, we moved today before the announcement on the vice chairman of the domestic council."},{"start":135.13,"end":136.23,"text":"They got a fairly good ride."},{"start":137.07,"end":140.53,"text":"And no one played the point that"},{"start":141.44,"end":144.51,"text":"of today, so that worked out well."},{"start":144.95,"end":145.25,"text":"Fine."},{"start":146.29,"end":148.88,"text":"Okay, now tomorrow I'm going to go about 1 o'clock."},{"start":148.98,"end":150.74,"text":"You should go down, I think."},{"start":150.88,"end":151.91,"text":"Oh, I'm going to, yes, sir."},{"start":152.31,"end":158.08,"text":"Yeah, because I'm going to go over and I'm going to be out of touch really for four days."},{"start":158.1,"end":158.54,"text":"Four days."},{"start":158.84,"end":162.19,"text":"And I don't give a shit what happens to hell with it."},{"start":162.21,"end":163.39,"text":"That's exactly right."},{"start":164.79,"end":170.31,"text":"There's nothing that can't be handled in five or six days from now that can be handled tomorrow or the next five or six days."},{"start":170.91,"end":171.07,"text":"Right."},{"start":171.33,"end":173.47,"text":"The important thing is that you, you know."},{"start":173.5,"end":174.38,"text":"Get a little rest."},{"start":174.52,"end":175.1,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":177.12,"end":177.24,"text":"Right."},{"start":177.26,"end":177.76,"text":"Okay, Ron."},{"start":177.8,"end":178.5,"text":"See you tomorrow, sir."},{"start":178.52,"end":178.94,"text":"Give him hell."},{"start":179.04,"end":179.26,"text":"Right."},{"start":179.3,"end":188.53,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon calls Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler to offer encouragement and provide strategic guidance regarding the ongoing Watergate investigation. They discuss maintaining a \"national security\" defense in response to inquiries about Egil Krogh and the Daniel Ellsberg trial, while reaffirming that the White House only recently learned of these matters from John Dean. Additionally, the pair reviews the positive press coverage surrounding John Connally’s party switch and coordinates the President’s upcoming vacation plans.","topics":["Watergate scandal","Egil Krogh","Daniel Ellsberg trial","John W. Dean III","John B. Connally","National security","Press relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T07:14:31.609Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate-scandal","egil-krogh","daniel-ellsberg-trial","john-w-dean-iii","john-b-connally","national-security","press-relations"],"audioDurationSec":193,"audioFiles":[{"file":"045-155.mp3","bytes":6191104,"durationSec":193.37,"bitrate":256130,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.712Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:44.630Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/045-155.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/045-155","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/45/conversation-045-155","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}