Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 45 › Conversation 045-189

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Press Relations and Robert L. Vesco

Thursday, May 10, 1973 · 2:56 PM–3:00 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation045-189 on Tape 45StartThursday, May 10, 1973 at 2:56 PMEndThursday, May 10, 1973 at 3:00 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 045-189 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discuss media strategy in the wake of the indictments of John Mitchell and Maurice Stans in the Robert Vesco case. They review the positive press reception of Nixon’s recent New Majority Dinner speech and assess the ongoing political fallout surrounding John W. Dean III. The President directs Ziegler to continue a messaging campaign highlighting administration stability and instructs him to leak a narrative suggesting potential trouble with the upcoming summit to enhance the impact of its eventual announcement.

Audio

Download MP3 · 8.2 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Hello?
Yes, sir.
Well, I guess your briefing's kind of wiped out by Mitchell and Stans today, huh?
Oh, did Al tell you they were indicted?
I knew they were going to be, but I didn't know, yeah.
At the Minsko case.
Right.
Yeah.
No, I think, as a matter of fact, I think that's good, though.
I mean, to be perfectly—when I say good, not for them, but it does show we're moving against people in the administration.
Don't you agree?
Oh, of course it does.
But I don't think it'll wipe out debriefing.
The briefing did go pretty well.
Oh, sure.
I mean, yes, it did.
And it's getting good play.
You know, it's a bulletin story.
Shows, you know, change in operation and so forth.
Both Al and I are working on, you know, talking to the press this afternoon and, you know, generally giving them the feel of your, you know, the tone of things here and how you're moving, what you want to get done.
You ought to get a little of the feeling of the applause of the cabinet and that sort of thing.
Oh, yeah.
That's what we're doing.
Yes, sir.
I understand at least Forrest Boyd gave a good play the last night.
I guess nobody else, but that's about it.
No, no, that's a good play.
It was extensive on TV this morning, and the wires played it well and so forth.
I mean, they played it not well, I mean positively.
Yes, sir, I think so.
Sure, you know, there are a couple lines that I saw in the news somewhere and so forth, and there were lines that I heard, which were not positive in terms of our way of thinking, but the overall thrust of the story was very positive.
Yes, sir.
Going home last night, the president— Enthusiasm is what the important thing is.
And on the film, they showed the enthusiasm, they showed the crowd, they showed the applause, they used the line.
You know, some people, some critics said this would be an enthusiastic crowd.
Well, it is.
It all came through.
Yes, sir.
I think we're moving against this thing, you know.
Well, I have a feeling— I feel good.
I have a feeling, too, that the Dean thing is maybe playing out somewhere, I don't know, or somebody is screwing us.
But goddammit, the story in the Times and the one by Hersh, he doesn't usually go with stuff that's wrong.
I mean, the son of a bitch is the son of a bitch, but he's usually right, isn't he?
Yes, he is.
He has generally been on the mark, particularly, you know, with those types of sources.
But his source was that Dean was not pissing on the president at the moment.
That's right.
And also that there was nothing to those papers.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
I handled Dean, you know, just in the very matter of fact, no comment.
And I think that's the way we should continue on that.
Because he's talking about his being— Someone's out to get him type of stuff.
Bullshit.
Yeah.
Somebody's out to get him, he's out to get other people.
That's right.
We'll just let him play his string there.
That's right.
But in the meantime, the thing of the cabinet this morning, Ron, is this.
It'll take time before our stories will begin to come up and just keep hammering and hammering and hammering and eventually they will come up.
That's right.
Like Henry's announcement of the summit.
Due to the fact that these assholes have started to play the fact that there wasn't going to be one now, when that comes out it'll be a good story.
Sure it will be.
Yes, sir.
Let them think the summit's on the rocks, will you?
Okay.
Leak that out a bit.
You know, there's trouble and all that sort of shit.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay, good.
Okay.
But looking at the press generally, they had to be impressed with that meeting last night.
Oh, of course they were.
Individually, weren't they?
Sure they were.
This made an impact on them.
Oh, sure, absolutely.
I'll tell it in the briefing.
Now, they're not going to run out all of a sudden.
No, no, no.
But it's a steady move against them.
The cabinet's been calling out, you know, there's a spirit now generating and gelling here, and it's a positive thing, and just keep moving ahead.
Get the leaders to do something.
What's the situation in that Bolton House?
What's happened on that?
It hasn't—the Bolton House hasn't been—
I don't have a report here, and they bring those things right in on that.
Yeah, well, we may lose it, but if we do, don't get, you know, disturbed.
No, no, because I've kicked him as an ass on it a little, but he doesn't have enough of a staff there, and he's working on it.
Working his ass off.
Self-beast up.
All right.
Okay, sir.

NARA Description

On May 10, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 2:56 pm to 3:00 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 045-189 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 45-189

Date: May 10, 1973
Time: 2:56 pm - 3:00 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

[See also Conversation No. 435-8]

     Press relations
           -Indictments in Robert L. Vesco case
                  -John N. Mitchell and Maurice H. Stans
                  -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                  -Effect
           -Ziegler’s previous press briefing
                  -White House reorganization
                        -Haig
                        -Tone
                              -Cabinet
           -President’s talk at New Majority Dinner
                                            -121-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                           Conversation No. 45-189 (cont’d)

                 -Forrest Boyd
                 -Press coverage
                       -Television [TV]
                       -Wire services
                       -News summary
                       -Tone
           -John W. Dean, III
                 -New York Times story
                       -Seymour M. Hersh
                              -Accuracy of reporting
                       -Relations with President
                       -Papers
                 -Motives
                 -White House counterattack
                       -Henry A. Kissinger’s announcement of summit
           -President’s talk at New Majority Dinner
                 -Press reaction
                       -Press briefing
                 -Cabinet
                       -Haig
                 -Congressional leaders
           -Vote in House of Representatives
                 -William E. Timmons
                       -Lack of staff

Also recorded on May 10, 1973

  • 045-187 2:49 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 2:49 pm to 2:51 pm.
  • 045-188 2:51 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:51 pm and 2:56 pm.
  • 435-007 2:51 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:51 pm and 2:56 pm.
  • 435-008 2:56 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:56 pm to 3:00 pm.
  • 045-190 3:00 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:00 pm and 3:02 pm.
  • 435-009 3:00 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:00 pm and 3:02 pm.
  • 045-191 3:02 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 3:02 pm to 3:05 pm.
  • 435-010 3:02 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:02 pm to 3:05 pm.

All 86 conversations from May 10, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 045-189, May 10, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/045-189 (accessed October 1, 2026).