{"conversationCode":"045-195","tapeNumber":45,"conversationNumber":195,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-045-195","startDateTime":"1973-05-10T19:30:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-05-10T19:32:00.000Z","startDate":"10-May-1973","startTime":"3:30 PM","endDate":"10-May-1973","endTime":"3:32 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Timmons, William E.;","description":"On May 10, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and William E. Timmons talked on the telephone from 3:30 pm to 3:32 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 045-195 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 45-195\n\nDate: May 10, 1973\nTime: 3:30 pm - 3:32 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with William E. Timmons.\n\f                                                -125-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                            Conversation No. 45-195 (cont’d)\n\n[See also Conversation No. 435-19]\n\n     Congressional relations\n          -Pending House of Representatives vote on Vietnam\n                -Debate\n                -Amendments\n                -Vote count\n                -Attendance\n                -Importance\n                -Gerald R. Ford’s and Leslie C. Arends’s meeting with freshmen Republicans\n                -Importance of legislative victory","filename":["045-195.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Timmons, William E."],"prevCode":"045-194","nextCode":"045-196","transcript":[{"start":0.39,"end":0.65,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":0.97,"end":2.09,"text":"Mr. President, Bill Timmons."},{"start":2.11,"end":3.69,"text":"What's the scope of the House?"},{"start":4.05,"end":5.03,"text":"They haven't voted yet."},{"start":5.07,"end":6.49,"text":"They're still in debate."},{"start":6.59,"end":9.65,"text":"They'll finish debate about 4 o'clock, and they'll move to some other amendments."},{"start":9.67,"end":11.73,"text":"So we think about five a vote will happen."},{"start":12.56,"end":16.72,"text":"We're counting 150 Republicans and about 50 Democrats for a total of about 200."},{"start":16.82,"end":18.62,"text":"Only 150 Republicans?"},{"start":18.7,"end":19.08,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":19.1,"end":21.46,"text":"It looks like we've lost about 40."},{"start":21.7,"end":25.11,"text":"We're trying to turn some of them back around, or at least have them take a walk for us."},{"start":26.13,"end":26.69,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":26.71,"end":27.77,"text":"What's the attendance today?"},{"start":28.39,"end":30.39,"text":"There were 406 there."},{"start":30.76,"end":33.36,"text":"So there's a chance."},{"start":33.44,"end":34.1,"text":"There's a chance."},{"start":34.12,"end":43.25,"text":"It's close and we've got guys all over the place and we know who are the bad guys and we're trying to turn them around or at least have them get away from the bathroom or something."},{"start":43.27,"end":44.22,"text":"Boy, get them away."},{"start":44.66,"end":50.5,"text":"This is a vital importance to the nation, you know, just to play every string there is."},{"start":50.52,"end":58.47,"text":"Jerry and Les had all the freshmen in the back room there earlier lecturing them because we were at that point losing too many freshmen."},{"start":58.86,"end":60.56,"text":"And they turned a lot of them around."},{"start":60.64,"end":65.93,"text":"So there's still some in there that are kind of undecided that I haven't counted 150."},{"start":67.17,"end":68.55,"text":"We may pick up a few of those."},{"start":68.57,"end":70.86,"text":"If you pick up 10, you'll win it."},{"start":71.42,"end":72.28,"text":"Yes, I think we can."},{"start":72.74,"end":73.1,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":73.12,"end":73.68,"text":"I think we can."},{"start":74.5,"end":75.66,"text":"Well, let's win this one."},{"start":75.68,"end":76.83,"text":"This is what we need, boy."},{"start":76.84,"end":77.57,"text":"All right, sir."},{"start":77.59,"end":78.05,"text":"All right."},{"start":78.39,"end":78.51,"text":"Good."},{"start":78.69,"end":79.19,"text":"We'll let you know."},{"start":79.73,"end":79.93,"text":"All right."},{"start":79.95,"end":80.19,"text":"All right."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and legislative aide William E. Timmons discuss the whip count for a critical upcoming House of Representatives vote concerning Vietnam policy. Timmons outlines a narrow path to victory, noting that the administration is actively lobbying undecided Republican freshmen following interventions by Gerald Ford and Leslie Arends. Nixon emphasizes the vital importance of the outcome, urging Timmons to exert every effort to flip votes and secure a legislative win.","topics":["Vietnam War","Congressional relations","Legislative strategy","House of Representatives","William E. Timmons","Lobbying"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T07:18:14.799Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","congressional-relations","legislative-strategy","house-of-representatives","william-e-timmons","lobbying"],"audioDurationSec":88,"audioFiles":[{"file":"045-195.mp3","bytes":2813952,"durationSec":87.84,"bitrate":256279,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:02.712Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:44.634Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/045-195.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/045-195","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/45/conversation-045-195","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}