Conversation 045-203

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Hello.

Yes, Mr. President.

Now, I thought with all the indictment of Mitchell and Stanton today that for me to talk to Henry tonight would be a real loser, you know.

Oh, I think so.

He doesn't expect— Well, apart from that, we want to do it for news purposes, and what I was thinking was that maybe that, if you would like, that—and tell me whether you think it's a good idea that he and Scowcroft and you and I might have

breakfast in the morning.

How does that sound to you?

Or should I just meet him at 9 o'clock?

Is that better?

I think 9 o'clock would be better.

He may be a little punch drunk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right.

Maybe 10 then.

Give him time, yeah.

All right, sir.

But I do—you are going to have a—it should be covered.

Oh, God, yes, yes.

We're meeting with him now.

In any event, too, Rogers has got to be on that damn thing, too, you see.

See, Rogers is going off.

See, we're having a meeting with him at 11 to send him off.

So I don't think it should just be Henry and me.

It should be he and Rogers and I.

Don't you think so?

Yes, sir.

That would be excellent.

Right.

But Henry actually wants to see me alone.

Yeah, you ought to do that maybe with Scowcroft, if you want, or talk by yourself.

No, no, Henry, I want to do how he is.

He likes to talk alone.

That's better.

And why don't you suggest to him, or you or Scowcroft, suggest to him that

I'll see him at—that Rogers is coming at 11, that I'll see him at his convenience at 9.30, 10 o'clock or so forth.

That's good.

Good.

And, you know, it's good to have this story coming, you know, with the— It's excellent.

You know, let me say, I just told—I hate to see—

Good guys like Stans and Mitchell undied it, but goddamn, they did dumb things, you know.

Good God, a lot of perjuring themselves about a goddamn campaign contribution.

That's right.

But I think that's just one of the little battle scars we take, right?

That's right, sir.

But you're getting very good play today on today's exercise.

You think so?

Oh, yeah.

It's coming.

This is the way we want to do it.

steady, solid.

Steady and not too damn spectacular.

No, not spectacular.

No, that's right.

But I tell you, I had called some scooch acts and he said, God damn it, he said, this is great.

He said, he's thinking about which one, both?

Both.

In fact, he said, he said, you better do the same and the FBI and the president will

Well, settled everything down.

Tell me, what the hell on your FBI guy?

Did you try to check on that 52-year-old guy?

Can you do it?

I did.

He's a good man.

He did trouble with—he worked with a campaign committee this summer.

And while he had no involvement with these other characters, he was there and it would be smelly.

That's right.

Now, Jackson pushed very hard on Sullivan.

He said he's just the best pro in the business.

Well, check him out.

No, I mean, the fact that Peterson and everybody else is against him may mean that he's the guy we want.

Well, that's right.

He just didn't get along with Hoover, and what's left over there is Hoover's entourage.

That's right.

And I'd just as soon take Sullivan in, and I'll tell you what you do.

You know him well?

Yes, sir.

Very well.

Get him in and have a cold, tricky talk and see if we appointed him, if he'd clean up the assholes and be our man.

Right.

Well, I know he'd be that.

Hell, he's the guy that did all that early work.

But on the other hand, will he be asked about the early work?

Well, that's all right.

He doesn't care.

That's clean.

That was all above board.

But I like Sullivan.

The Jackson's high on him, too.

Very high.

He said he's the best man he knows in the Bureau, and he'd clean it out and get the morale and the discipline back.

And see, the reason the other guys don't like Sullivan is that he was basically trying to get Cooper in the ass, Al.

Exactly right.

All right, I'll give that assignment to you.

You talk to Sullivan.

On a cold, jerky basis, say, what in the hell should we do with the FBI?

We can't put Byrne in the job.

He's made a fool of himself in that court case.

Oh, God, he couldn't do it.

No, I think getting a professional is—it's really got to heal the bipartisan.

They're really pleased.

Really?

Yes, because, you see, these guys have been here for years, and they've got these lines and friends.

Yeah, like Colby.

That's right.

Jackson was pleased with Colby.

Very pleased.

He said that's top-notch.

He was really pleased.

Schlesinger, of course, they all know is a pro, cold turkey pro.

Nobody dislikes Schlesinger.

They just think he's great.

Actually, he would be better than Richardson, you know, because basically he's more hard line, more cold, more tough.

That's right.

I mean, he'll cut the fat out, but he won't cut the muscle, and Richardson would cut the muscle.

That's exactly right.

Precisely right.

I'm more pleased with him than I ever would have been with Richardson.

Right, right, right.

We haven't heard anything from—I talked to Rogers, and he said he was trying to get Warren.

Yeah, he just called me this morning, and Warren said he just thought this was too political, but Bill thinks—and I told him to go back and check with the Chief Justice.

And to see whether I can put more pressure on Warren because he said Warren was sort of wishy-washy.

And he might be able to get him to do it if the Chief Justice thinks it's kosher.

I see.

But if not, Tom Clark.

Right.

And we'd have to tell Warren that we're going to go to Clark and that might be enough to tie him, you see.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, Bill, should I call Bill on this score or are you concerned?

If you— Yeah, all right, I will.

High five.

Fine.

Okay, bye.