Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 45 › Conversation 045-212

Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Watergate and John Dean

Thursday, May 10, 1973 · 6:01 PM–6:06 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsHaldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Nixon, Richard M. (President)Conversation045-212 on Tape 45StartThursday, May 10, 1973 at 6:01 PMEndThursday, May 10, 1973 at 6:06 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 045-212 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and H.R. Haldeman discuss the legal implications of recent Watergate-related indictments, specifically those targeting John Mitchell and Maurice Stans. The conversation focuses on coordinating their defense regarding past interactions with John Dean, particularly an effort to have the IRS investigate Lawrence O'Brien. Nixon and Haldeman emphasize the propriety of their past actions and discuss strategies to counter potential damaging testimony from Dean.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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hello mr president mr holderman hi thank you right ready hello yes sir hi bob hi i was wondering on something was rather intriguing to me what in the hell was the discussion on the irs about with dean i would guess it's on the larry o'brien thing
It wasn't about Vesco, was it, for Christ's sake?
Oh, no, no, no.
Because that isn't an IRS case, was it, Jesus Christ?
No, no, no.
Okay.
Remember, we were trying to get O'Brien's, he and his son hauled in there or something, and Schultz was dragging his feet on it.
That's right.
That's right.
But that's a very good line in there.
I mean, I hope you'll say that, that they were not investigating properly, the IRS, when we told them to get the author in.
Actually, that conversation, he'll never bring it out.
But if you do, I mean, if he does, you can knock his brains out with that, can't you?
Oh, sure.
Right.
Yeah, we don't have any problem with that.
I had Rose call both Stanton and poor Mitchell.
Poor guy was coming on the test flight.
Instead of coming on the plane, he
drove down so they wouldn't mug him.
He does that quite a bit, apparently.
And God, he must be going through hell.
You know, I don't think he's going to survive it, Bob.
Well, I don't know.
I think he's got this terrible nervous problem anyway.
It's an odd thing that he feels he can bluff it through, apparently.
No way.
I guess that's what he's trying to do.
No way.
On the other hand, on Stans, I can't believe Stans ever deliberately lied.
Do you?
Nope.
But what do you think happened then in this damn grand jury?
I don't know.
I haven't read the... Well, he's charged with perjury, that's all, but both he and...
He is?
Yeah, both stands in Mitchell are charged with perjury.
That's what their charge is on this thing.
Oh, I'm sorry.
But the more he stands, he would never lie.
I wouldn't think so.
He'd do other things.
Nothing made a mistake.
That's the one problem in a grand jury is that any time you give conflicting testimony, it's automatically perjury.
I see.
And when they work you over the way they do, it's—it's awful difficult to— Right.
See, the United Stands and Mitchell and Harry Sears, too.
Yeah, I saw that.
Sears and Vesco, I guess.
Well, Vesco, of course, because he's a crooked son of a bitch.
But Harry Sears is his lawyer.
Thank God they didn't get my poor brother Eddie in it.
If they'd done that, I'd have resigned the office today, believe me.
But, you know, that would have been so cruel, so cruel.
Because they had nothing to do with the goddamn thing, whatever.
No more than you had to do or John had to do with these other things.
Well, that's it.
If they go berserk and put all, you know, take every fringe possibility where there's any remote link, they can cause some trouble.
Right.
Well, I'm glad at least you checked this thing because, you know, it's typical of the kind of conversation we would have.
I mean, we covered about eight subjects.
That's right.
And they were all totally relevant, totally proper.
That's right.
And things we ought to be doing.
That's right.
And there's no mention in the note of the other thing.
I'm sure he probably mentioned something about it.
They brought the indictments today or something.
Yeah.
But actually, you probably said, or I probably said, well, you know, thank God they didn't have to indict any of the White House people.
Oh, yeah, I know.
But, you know, that's your note that you're talking about now.
There's nothing in there that says...
But that's your note that you're talking about.
This is your note of the conversation.
Yeah.
Well, you know goddamn well if there'd been anything like that, you'd have it in your notes.
If there'd been anything significant on that, I would understand.
Of course.
Of course.
That's right.
Well, that's...
I think Dean is shooting more blanks than we think.
I mean, he may not be, but I think you're right.
I think he is.
And then he lobbed out this statement today that they're trying to get me.
And that he hasn't put out any of these stories.
Well, that's just pure bullshit.
He hasn't put out any of these stories, nor have any of his lawyers or anybody representing him.
What do you think he's trying to do with that buff?
I don't know.
I think he probably figures he's overshot and he's trying to go back and play the little game of trying to, well, basically, let's face it.
If something happens to him, there's only one guy that can help him.
Yep.
You understand that?
Yep.
He sure as hell has got to understand it.
Yep.
Okay.
Well, anyway, we'll check it off.
All right, I hope.
I told Al about the thing.
He checked back and found that Jeffy had not been at the meeting.
That's right.
And that was incorrect.
You were right about that.
Yeah.
And I said, well, dammit, I've got to get the facts on these things.
I want to know who said it and who—what's that?
Before you meet with Buzzard, I will have checked him out further to be goddamn sure it's a fair deal.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
All right, Bob.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On May 10, 1973, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 6:01 pm to 6:06 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 045-212 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 45-212

Date: May 10, 1973
Time: 6:01 pm - 6:06 pm
Location: White House Telephone

H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman talked with the President.

     Watergate
          -President and Haldeman’s discussion with John W. Dean, III
                -Internal Revenue Service [IRS]
                      -Lawrence F. O’Brien
                      -Robert L. Vesco
                      -O’Brien and son
                            -George P. Shultz
                      -Dean’s possible testimony
                            -Haldeman’s possible response
                -Rose Mary Woods’s telephone call to Maurice H. Stans
                -John N. Mitchell
                      -Transportation to Washington, DC
                      -Health
          -Stans
                -Indictment on perjury
                -Veracity
                -Grand Jury
          -Vesco case
          -Indictments of Vesco and Harry Sears
                -Edward C. Nixon
          -President’s conversation with Dean and Haldeman
                -Subjects
                      -Indictments
                -Haldeman’s notes
          -Dean
                -Statement, May 10, 1973
                                            -137-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                             Conversation No. 45-212 (cont’d)

                        -Origin of stories
           -President’s conversation with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                  -[Horace] Chapman (“Chappie”) Rose
           -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
                  -Forthcoming meeting with Haldeman

Also recorded on May 10, 1973

  • 045-209 5:17 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 5:17 pm to 5:20 pm.
  • 045-210 5:20 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:20 pm and 5:23 pm.
  • 045-211 5:23 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 5:23 pm to 5:26 pm.
  • 045-214 6:00 PM · 23 sec — White House operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:00 pm and 6:10 pm.
  • 045-213 6:06 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:06 pm and 6:10 pm.
  • 045-215 6:10 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William E. Timmons talked on the telephone from 6:10 pm to 6:13 pm.
  • 045-216 6:13 PM · 22 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:13 pm and 6:40 pm.
  • 045-217 6:40 PM · 7 min — Alexander M. Haig, Jr. and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 6:40 pm to 6:48 pm.

All 86 conversations from May 10, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 045-212, May 10, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/045-212 (accessed October 5, 2026).