Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 045-212
Date: Thursday, May 10, 1973 at 6:01 PM
Participants: Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Nixon, Richard M. (President)
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/045-212

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] hello mr president mr holderman hi thank you right ready hello yes sir hi bob hi i was wondering on something was rather intriguing to me what in the hell was the discussion on the irs about with dean i would guess it's on the larry o'brien thing
[0:22] It wasn't about Vesco, was it, for Christ's sake?
[0:25] Oh, no, no, no.
[0:25] Because that isn't an IRS case, was it, Jesus Christ?
[0:28] No, no, no.
[0:29] Okay.
[0:29] Remember, we were trying to get O'Brien's, he and his son hauled in there or something, and Schultz was dragging his feet on it.
[0:36] That's right.
[0:37] That's right.
[0:39] But that's a very good line in there.
[0:40] I mean, I hope you'll say that, that they were not investigating properly, the IRS, when we told them to get the author in.
[0:46] Actually, that conversation, he'll never bring it out.
[0:50] But if you do, I mean, if he does, you can knock his brains out with that, can't you?
[0:53] Oh, sure.
[0:55] Right.
[0:55] Yeah, we don't have any problem with that.
[0:57] I had Rose call both Stanton and poor Mitchell.
[1:02] Poor guy was coming on the test flight.
[1:04] Instead of coming on the plane, he
[1:06] drove down so they wouldn't mug him.
[1:08] He does that quite a bit, apparently.
[1:09] And God, he must be going through hell.
[1:13] You know, I don't think he's going to survive it, Bob.
[1:15] Well, I don't know.
[1:16] I think he's got this terrible nervous problem anyway.
[1:21] It's an odd thing that he feels he can bluff it through, apparently.
[1:25] No way.
[1:25] I guess that's what he's trying to do.
[1:27] No way.
[1:28] On the other hand, on Stans, I can't believe Stans ever deliberately lied.
[1:32] Do you?
[1:33] Nope.
[1:34] But what do you think happened then in this damn grand jury?
[1:36] I don't know.
[1:36] I haven't read the... Well, he's charged with perjury, that's all, but both he and...
[1:41] He is?
[1:42] Yeah, both stands in Mitchell are charged with perjury.
[1:45] That's what their charge is on this thing.
[1:46] Oh, I'm sorry.
[1:48] But the more he stands, he would never lie.
[1:51] I wouldn't think so.
[1:52] He'd do other things.
[1:53] Nothing made a mistake.
[1:54] That's the one problem in a grand jury is that any time you give conflicting testimony, it's automatically perjury.
[2:00] I see.
[2:00] And when they work you over the way they do, it's—it's awful difficult to— Right.
[2:06] See, the United Stands and Mitchell and Harry Sears, too.
[2:09] Yeah, I saw that.
[2:10] Sears and Vesco, I guess.
[2:12] Well, Vesco, of course, because he's a crooked son of a bitch.
[2:17] But Harry Sears is his lawyer.
[2:19] Thank God they didn't get my poor brother Eddie in it.
[2:21] If they'd done that, I'd have resigned the office today, believe me.
[2:25] But, you know, that would have been so cruel, so cruel.
[2:28] Because they had nothing to do with the goddamn thing, whatever.
[2:30] No more than you had to do or John had to do with these other things.
[2:34] Well, that's it.
[2:34] If they go berserk and put all, you know, take every fringe possibility where there's any remote link, they can cause some trouble.
[2:44] Right.
[2:45] Well, I'm glad at least you checked this thing because, you know, it's typical of the kind of conversation we would have.
[2:52] I mean, we covered about eight subjects.
[2:54] That's right.
[2:55] And they were all totally relevant, totally proper.
[2:58] That's right.
[2:58] And things we ought to be doing.
[3:00] That's right.
[3:00] And there's no mention in the note of the other thing.
[3:02] I'm sure he probably mentioned something about it.
[3:04] They brought the indictments today or something.
[3:07] Yeah.
[3:08] But actually, you probably said, or I probably said, well, you know, thank God they didn't have to indict any of the White House people.
[3:13] Oh, yeah, I know.
[3:14] But, you know, that's your note that you're talking about now.
[3:17] There's nothing in there that says...
[3:18] But that's your note that you're talking about.
[3:20] This is your note of the conversation.
[3:22] Yeah.
[3:22] Well, you know goddamn well if there'd been anything like that, you'd have it in your notes.
[3:25] If there'd been anything significant on that, I would understand.
[3:27] Of course.
[3:27] Of course.
[3:28] That's right.
[3:30] Well, that's...
[3:31] I think Dean is shooting more blanks than we think.
[3:34] I mean, he may not be, but I think you're right.
[3:36] I think he is.
[3:37] And then he lobbed out this statement today that they're trying to get me.
[3:42] And that he hasn't put out any of these stories.
[3:46] Well, that's just pure bullshit.
[3:50] He hasn't put out any of these stories, nor have any of his lawyers or anybody representing him.
[3:55] What do you think he's trying to do with that buff?
[3:57] I don't know.
[3:58] I think he probably figures he's overshot and he's trying to go back and play the little game of trying to, well, basically, let's face it.
[4:08] If something happens to him, there's only one guy that can help him.
[4:12] Yep.
[4:13] You understand that?
[4:14] Yep.
[4:15] He sure as hell has got to understand it.
[4:17] Yep.
[4:18] Okay.
[4:20] Well, anyway, we'll check it off.
[4:24] All right, I hope.
[4:26] I told Al about the thing.
[4:32] He checked back and found that Jeffy had not been at the meeting.
[4:38] That's right.
[4:38] And that was incorrect.
[4:43] You were right about that.
[4:45] Yeah.
[4:45] And I said, well, dammit, I've got to get the facts on these things.
[4:48] I want to know who said it and who—what's that?
[4:54] Before you meet with Buzzard, I will have checked him out further to be goddamn sure it's a fair deal.
[5:01] Okay.
[5:01] Yes, sir.
[5:01] All right, Bob.
[5:02] Thank you.