Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 46 › Conversation 046-021

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate scandal and H. R. Haldeman

Sunday, May 13, 1973 · 10:04 PM–10:08 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation046-021 on Tape 46StartSunday, May 13, 1973 at 10:04 PMEndSunday, May 13, 1973 at 10:08 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 046-021 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discussed upcoming public appearances and the administration's strategic response to the ongoing Watergate scandal. The conversation focused on preparations for H. R. Haldeman’s grand jury testimony, the status of John Dean’s potential immunity, and the timeline for William Ruckelshaus's public statement regarding White House documents. Nixon emphasized the importance of maintaining a normal presidential schedule to project stability while coordinating a bipartisan effort for a new Commission on Federal Election Reform.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello?
Yes, sir.
Hi, Ron, did you have any time with your wife today, I hope?
Yes, sir.
Mother's Day and everything, and you had to work.
I'm so sorry.
No problem at all, sir.
Fine.
A lot done today.
Right.
Anything new I should know about?
No, not tonight.
No, sir.
Sort of a quiet Sunday for a change.
Nothing really.
Not what we talked about earlier.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You and Haig and the rest tried to develop some plans for next week, huh?
Yes, sir.
Do you think we ought to do something Armed Forces Day next Saturday?
We have some thoughts on that, yes, sir.
Right.
Right.
And Al has ideas that we talked about today.
And his feeling is, yes, it would be a good idea to do something.
Right.
Right.
Is Bob going for the grand jury tomorrow, doesn't he?
Yeah, he does.
And let's see, we have, of course, the Ruckelshaus.
They're trying to work his statement out today.
Right.
He's going to go, I believe, before tomorrow.
Yeah.
He's just got to lay it out straight out.
When you handle it, you can just say, well, basically, which is the goddamn truth, which is
things were brought over to us because... Did you ever find out when they were delivered here?
The exact time?
Sullivan.
I mean, Sullivan stuff.
Right.
No, I don't know the exact time.
They've got that...
I mean, it wasn't in the last... You know, it was months ago.
Oh, it was months ago.
Right.
About the time before he left, actually.
Right.
Okay.
And... Let's see.
Otherwise...
Tell me this, Dean hasn't testified yet, has he?
No, he hasn't.
That's strange.
They haven't made a deal with him yet, or they're not even trying to anymore, are they?
What do the news accounts indicate?
The whole immunity thing has sort of slipped into the background.
He's such a key witness, though, Ron, to the whole thing.
They've got to have him.
Yeah.
I would assume that they will this week, but he hasn't yet.
And the committee goes on Thursday, yeah?
Starts Thursday, yes, sir.
But I'm sure there's not going to be much happening this week.
Oh, well, hell, they'll put on all those, you know, people from the White House who were, you know, well, at the committee mainly, I guess.
Right.
Gee, they're such nice guys, you know.
God damn it, they all work their ass off.
It's going to be rough on them, isn't it?
Well, they'll be able to pull it off.
They're strong guys.
Right.
I think so.
I think so.
This week, probably, it'll just be, you know, the initial questions won't be too much.
I really feel the main thing we need to do now—I've been saying a lot of things over the weekend—I really think that it's all a question of timing, and it isn't time yet to go on an offensive.
But I think in terms
presidential activity, you know, and just going on and doing the business, that that's goddamn important.
Isn't that essential?
Isn't that your conclusion?
I mean, we don't know how much it'll play, but it'll play some.
It'll play.
Look at how the commission played.
Yeah, the commission, incidentally, I had a good talk with Ray, and I thought that the better thing, rather than to blow it on Tuesday—
We'd have a meeting with the leaders Tuesday and then send it up Wednesday.
Right.
Don't you think that's better?
That's right.
We get a lot of talking about it.
But there'll be a good meeting Tuesday with that.
Right.
Right.
Another activity next week.
Right.
Yes, sir.
Well, keep your dauber up, old boy.
Yes, sir.
We're in good shape.
Okay.
I'll see you tomorrow.
Bye, sir.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On May 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 10:04 pm to 10:08 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 046-021 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 46-21

Date: May 13, 1973
                                               -10-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Time: 10:04 pm - 10:08 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

     Ziegler’s schedule
           -Ziegler’s wife

     President’s schedule
           -Ziegler’s meeting with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -Armed Forces Day

     Watergate
          -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s grand jury
          -William D. Ruckelshaus’s forthcoming statement
                -Delivery of William C. Sullivan documents to White House
                      -Timing
                             -J. Edgar Hoover
          -John W. Dean, III
                -Testimony
                -Possible immunity
          -Ervin Committee
          -President’s activities

     President’s schedule
           -Commission of Federal Election Reform
                 -Public statement
                       -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                 -Meeting with bipartisan Congressional leaders
                 -Publicity
                       -Meeting with leaders

Also recorded on May 14, 1973

  • 046-020 9:54 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:54 pm and 10:04 pm.
  • 046-022 10:08 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:08 pm and 10:09 pm.
  • 046-023 10:09 PM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 10:09 pm to 10:43 pm.
  • 917-041 5:15 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:15 am and 5:17 pm.
  • 917-001 8:42 AM · 2 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:42 am and 8:56 am.
  • 917-002 8:56 AM · 2 hr 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Lawrence M. Higby met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:56 am to 10:50 am.
  • 917-003 10:50 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:50 am and 11:00 am.
  • 917-004 10:50 AM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:50 am and 11:00 am.

All 102 conversations from May 14, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 046-021, May 14, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/046-021 (accessed October 1, 2026).