Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 46 › Conversation 046-039

Nixon, Ziegler & Garment on Watergate and Ervin Committee

Monday, May 14, 1973 · 7:27 PM–8:15 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsZiegler, Ronald L.; Garment, Leonard; Nixon, Richard M. (President)Conversation046-039 on Tape 46StartMonday, May 14, 1973 at 7:27 PMEndMonday, May 14, 1973 at 8:15 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 046-039 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon, Ron Ziegler, and Leonard Garment coordinate a confrontational strategy to force the Ervin Committee to issue a public retraction regarding unsubstantiated allegations against the President. Nixon expresses significant frustration with the perceived lack of aggression from his legal team, specifically criticizing Howard Baker's response to the committee's reporting. The President directs Garment to demand an immediate apology and threaten the committee's overall credibility to ensure they do not successfully propagate false charges.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello?
I had Mr. Garman.
Oh, good.
Right.
Len?
Yes, Ron.
Yes, in talking with the president here, the important thing is that we hit this thing hard enough.
In other words, you put the fear of God into those people.
I bet.
Everybody I can lay my hands on and have calls placed all around town.
To Irvin, to his senior staff assistant, to Dash.
I spoke to Thompson four times, talked to Baker.
And they understand this.
In other words, they know they've got to retract or else, right?
They know they've got to retract or else.
By the way, that paper is, I gather, is a Bercher paper.
That's a hell of a thing for the AP to pick up.
And for these fellas to be sitting around scratching their heads wondering what to do.
Well, you made that point clear to them, though.
About sitting around scratching their heads, right.
I said, if their phone is available to call each other, you don't have to wait to have a plenary conference in order to deny a transparent fabrication like this.
Well, the president's disturbed we're not hitting this hard enough.
Well, he'll come on the line.
Yes, sir.
I don't think you understand the...
I mean, I'm sure you understand the importance.
The point that I want to make is that this is the golden opportunity to discredit the committee.
Now, you understand, they have made a charge, completely untrue.
And, damn it, Len, for Howard Baker to play the...
Now, right now, your friend Dash and this fellow Thompson and the rest, they better understand...
is involved here is the credibility of this committee from now on out.
Just those terms.
Good for you.
Good for you.
You understand.
I have great confidence in you, but goddammit, they cannot attack the President of the United States stealing a million dollars and get away with it.
And then for them not to be found.
I think there's some advantage in giving them a little bit of rope to choke themselves with.
Well, I agree with that.
And the fact that they have to
But why is it that Baker, what did he do?
Whine and cry?
He always does.
He denied it to the press.
He didn't say that.
He denied it to the press, and Irvin did, too.
He said that they have no such... No, no, no.
There must be...
If you take these words down, there must be a public retraction and apology by the committee, the whole committee, for this libelous support...
an assault on the President of the United States.
It is totally untrue.
We have no facts.
We are going to investigate immediately to see
What member of the staff was involved, and he will be immediately discharged.
Now, God damn it, Len, play it tough.
I will, and I have.
And the way they're fobbing it off is to say this is irresponsible press.
Bullshit.
God damn it, the press wouldn't do it unless the committee was doing it.
Now, Len, they're putting you on.
Right, I know that, and I've told them just that.
You get back to Baker.
And I want you to repeat to him exactly what I said, that I think he's being a pusillanimous ass on this.
I really do.
Or if you think less words are worthwhile, okay.
I'm really making it clear how you feel about this.
Okay, boy.
No mistake.
Let's give him a little rope.
All right.
Very good.
Okay.

NARA Description

On May 14, 1973, Ronald L. Ziegler, Leonard Garment, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 046-039 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 46-39

Date: May 14, 1973
Time: Unknown between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Ronald L. Ziegler talked with Leonard Garment.

[See also Conversation No. 436-15F]

     Watergate
          -Garment’s telephone calls
               -Ervin Committee staff
                     -Sam J. Ervin, Jr.
                     -Samuel Dash
                     -Fred D. Thompson
                     -Howard Baker, Jr.
                     -Retraction of statements
          -Newspaper reports
               -John Birch Society newsletter
               -Committee’s response

The President talked with Garment at an unknown time.

     Watergate
          -Veracity of Committee’s charges against the President
               -Credibility
               -Baker, Ervin
               -Possible suit by President
               -Dash and Thompson
               -President’s demands
               -Charges against press
               -Garment’s forthcoming telephone call to Baker

Also recorded on May 14, 1973

  • 046-033 7:19 PM · 2 min — Ronald L. Ziegler, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Leonard Garment talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:19 pm and 7:26 pm.
  • 046-034 7:27 PM · 44 sec — Ronald L. Ziegler and Leonard Garment talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm.
  • 046-035 7:27 PM · 2 min — Leonard Garment and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm.
  • 046-036 7:27 PM · 11 sec — Ronald L. Ziegler and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm.
  • 046-037 7:27 PM · 2 min — Ronald L. Ziegler and Lawrence M. Higby talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm.
  • 046-038 7:27 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm.
  • 436-015 7:27 PM · 1 hr 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Leonard Garment, and Lawrence M. Higby met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 7:27 pm to 8:15 pm.
  • 917-045 7:27 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 7:27 pm and 8:15 pm.

All 102 conversations from May 14, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 046-039, May 14, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/046-039 (accessed October 1, 2026).