{"conversationCode":"046-041","tapeNumber":46,"conversationNumber":41,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-046-041","startDateTime":"1973-05-15T01:01:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-05-15T01:03:00.000Z","startDate":"14-May-1973","startTime":"9:01 PM","endDate":"14-May-1973","endTime":"9:03 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On May 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:01 pm to 9:03 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 046-041 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 46-41\n\nDate: May 14, 1973\nTime: 9:01pm -9:03 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 436-18B]\n\n     Watergate\n          -Ziegler’s conversation with Herbert G. Klein\n                - [James W.?] Gallagher\n          -Sam J. Ervin and Howard H. Baker, Jr. characterized\n          -Ziegler’s briefing, May 15\n                -Bipartisan Congressional leaders meeting\n                -Attack on Ervin Committee\n                -Leonard Garment\n                -Santa Ana Register story","filename":["046-041.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"046-040","nextCode":"046-042","transcript":[{"start":1.16,"end":1.56,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":1.92,"end":3.42,"text":"Nothing further from the committee."},{"start":3.46,"end":5.81,"text":"They've still taken their dog in the manger attitude."},{"start":6.21,"end":6.51,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":6.55,"end":11.72,"text":"I've talked to Herb Klein, and he's moving on the Gallagher thing, and very tough."},{"start":11.74,"end":22.69,"text":"Now, look, we've got to understand that it's not to our interest, really, to have Irvin and Baker, who are both pusillanimous assholes, you know, repudiate this thing."},{"start":23.39,"end":24.11,"text":"Tomorrow at"},{"start":24.48,"end":30.79,"text":"However, when you go on for your briefing at 10.30, forget this goddamn thing we're going to do tomorrow with the leaders."},{"start":30.83,"end":33.65,"text":"You go out there at 10.30 with a camera, right?"},{"start":33.67,"end":34.17,"text":"You understand?"},{"start":34.37,"end":34.61,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":34.63,"end":36.52,"text":"And, Ron, take down what I've told you."},{"start":36.58,"end":37.48,"text":"You've got it down."},{"start":37.5,"end":37.88,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":38.08,"end":40.44,"text":"That means that the committee will have indicted itself."},{"start":40.8,"end":42.34,"text":"This committee has indicted itself."},{"start":42.62,"end":45.87,"text":"Tomorrow is the time to start the attack on the committee."},{"start":46.27,"end":46.65,"text":"Okay."},{"start":46.73,"end":47.11,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":47.17,"end":48.19,"text":"You understand?"},{"start":48.21,"end":50.03,"text":"Because they will not have acted."},{"start":50.09,"end":50.69,"text":"You understand?"},{"start":50.75,"end":52.85,"text":"They will not have acted by the time you go on, Ron."},{"start":52.88,"end":53.27,"text":"That's right."},{"start":53.26,"end":54.82,"text":"They never will have acted."},{"start":54.84,"end":56.9,"text":"That'll force them to act later in the day."},{"start":58.06,"end":63.35,"text":"I would say this committee, don't put it in any nice terms, but I put it very tough."},{"start":64.29,"end":68.53,"text":"They have, by their favor, to allow this story for two days."},{"start":69.4,"end":70.38,"text":"That time will be two days."},{"start":70.4,"end":71.16,"text":"You understand?"},{"start":71.54,"end":72.26,"text":"You understand?"},{"start":72.28,"end":72.64,"text":"Yes."},{"start":72.66,"end":73.1,"text":"Two days."},{"start":73.14,"end":74.5,"text":"They have allowed it."},{"start":74.65,"end":79.34,"text":"allowed it to lie there without repudiating it, without doing it."},{"start":79.44,"end":81.96,"text":"First, they have indicted themselves for irresponsibility."},{"start":82.4,"end":86,"text":"Second, we demand an apology from the committee and a retraction."},{"start":86.73,"end":92.39,"text":"Third, we demand an immediate investigation to the committee staff who was responsible and a discharge of that person."},{"start":92.41,"end":94.39,"text":"Have you got all that or not?"},{"start":94.72,"end":95.92,"text":"I'm just writing it down, sir."},{"start":96.66,"end":98.72,"text":"I'm just sorry to do that, but we've got to do this."},{"start":98.74,"end":101.48,"text":"Then don't let Len get you off of this."},{"start":101.5,"end":102.82,"text":"I don't think he will want you to."},{"start":102.84,"end":103.77,"text":"He won't, no."},{"start":104,"end":106.36,"text":"Because basically, we've got to hit that."},{"start":106.82,"end":111.55,"text":"Now, there may be a half-assed statement by Irvin, you know, tonight or late tonight or so forth."},{"start":111.57,"end":112.97,"text":"They haven't found him yet, though, have they?"},{"start":113.49,"end":116.83,"text":"No, he's issued a, as you refer to it, a half-assed statement."},{"start":116.86,"end":117.22,"text":"What did he say?"},{"start":117.52,"end":122.58,"text":"Well, just that he didn't have any information that would support that story."},{"start":122.62,"end":124.64,"text":"But what we need is a formal statement."},{"start":124.67,"end":124.97,"text":"All right."},{"start":124.99,"end":129.21,"text":"No, we want to demand a formal retraction by the full committee."},{"start":129.35,"end":129.75,"text":"That's right."},{"start":130.15,"end":136.11,"text":"Because the Santa Ana Register says that they stand by their story."},{"start":136.15,"end":138.07,"text":"Well, that just supports it more."},{"start":138.25,"end":138.79,"text":"All right."},{"start":138.81,"end":141.66,"text":"Now, a formal retraction for the full committee is required."},{"start":142.3,"end":145.28,"text":"You lay it right out there and fight Irvin and fight the rest."},{"start":145.54,"end":145.93,"text":"I agree."},{"start":146.31,"end":146.59,"text":"All right."},{"start":146.77,"end":147.19,"text":"Okay."},{"start":147.21,"end":147.43,"text":"Good."},{"start":147.45,"end":148.87,"text":"Yes."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon directs Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler to launch a public offensive against the Senate Watergate Committee, specifically targeting Senators Sam Ervin and Howard Baker. Nixon instructs Ziegler to denounce the committee for its failure to formally repudiate a recent Santa Ana Register story, arguing that the committee has essentially 'indicted itself' through its inaction. He mandates that Ziegler use his upcoming press briefing to demand a formal retraction, an apology, and the firing of the responsible committee staffer.","topics":["Watergate","Senate Watergate Committee","Sam Ervin","Howard Baker","Public relations","Press briefings"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T07:24:28.022Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","senate-watergate-committee","sam-ervin","howard-baker","public-relations","press-briefings"],"audioDurationSec":154,"audioFiles":[{"file":"046-041.mp3","bytes":4923392,"durationSec":153.73,"bitrate":256204,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:04.103Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/046-041.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/046-041","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/46/conversation-046-041","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}