Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 46 › Conversation 046-043
Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and Ervin Committee
Monday, May 14, 1973 · 9:15 PM–9:22 PM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discussed the White House's strategy to discredit the Ervin Committee regarding recent leaked reports about presidential finances. Nixon instructed Ziegler to adopt an aggressive, televised stance during his upcoming press briefing, demanding that the committee retract their statements, apologize, and initiate an internal investigation leading to the firing of the responsible staff members. By painting the committee as irresponsible and biased, the President aimed to force the Senate investigators into a defensive position before their scheduled hearings began.
- Watergate
- Ervin Committee
- Press relations
- Public relations strategy
- Carmine Bellino
- Congressional oversight
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Hello?
Yes, sir.
Ron, are you home?
No, I'm in the office.
I just wanted to say this with regard to that whole story tomorrow.
The tactic should be, and I think you should skip the leaders' meeting in the morning.
It's not important anyway.
You know, let Sherry Warren cover that.
You prepare to hit the press around 10.30.
Now, the tactic should be to ignore, totally, Irvin's...
And Baker's denials, you understand, act as if the committee had not said nothing.
You understand?
That's the only way to handle this.
If you're going to assault the committee, you've got to assault them.
The committee has failed for two days.
This charge has been here, and the committee has not.
And use the terms retract and apologize.
Okay.
Now, don't you agree?
See, Len will not understand this tactic.
No, I just talked about Len.
What's he think?
He feels the same way.
All right.
Well, he may understand that, but my point is, if you give them even an inch saying, well, Senator Urban has said this and that and so forth, don't even, just ignore the fact that Urban and Baker have both made half-assed statements.
Would you agree?
Yes.
Or do you think they've been more than half-assed?
No, I don't.
No, they haven't.
They haven't.
I just wonder, I don't think I should call my briefing early.
I can do it very regularly.
11 o'clock.
11 o'clock.
I agree.
But don't horse you around.
Get out of the leaders' meeting as soon as you can.
In other words, get there, drop in from 8.30 to 9.30 and get the hell out.
But remember...
This is a terribly important briefing.
It should be on television.
I want you on television.
Tell them you're going to make a major statement.
Get the whole goddamn thing out there.
And then lay the whip to them.
I agree.
And lay the whip to them in terms that this indicts this committee before it begins its hearings as being irresponsible, libelous, with knowledge.
Right.
Okay.
That's the way to get them now.
I mean, if we're going to fight the committee, fight them all the way.
Don't you agree?
Yes, I do.
I do?
Yes, sir.
Because you can...
because I really think they've made a major mistake here, Al, and I just talked about it, and he thinks so too, that this is a mistake which goes far back.
It's typical of Carmine Bellino, who's a bad actor, but he probably suspects it and hasn't proved it.
It's very typical, but it looks like this son of a bitch.
I've made a lot of notes here, and I want to reflect on this, and I agree totally with what you say.
I think
The one thing we should determine in the morning is to whether or not one of the things we want to force the committee into doing, particularly with the Santa Ana Register statement tonight, where they say they stand by their story, is to force them.
In other words, there are two ways we can go.
I'm not sure which way is to go.
I agree with what you said.
But one way to go, too, would be to force them into an investigation of themselves.
Now, if this story... Well, the story definitely was attributed to a Senate investigator.
Now, the point is, we should demand the idea that they investigate their staff and discharge the individual responsible.
Now, that may be a better approach, you see.
Now, but the point is...
The PR is so important.
Oh, I agree.
The PR is so important, and I'm not sure that going through a long investigation will do it.
You know, time is of the essence right now.
These charges are flying around two times.
Two things we can do.
Number one, demand an immediate statement through all three.
Demand an apology, a retraction, and an investigation.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
Investigation and discharge.
There it is.
Apology, retraction, investigation, and discharge.
Right.
And that they owe it to that before they begin their hearings on Thursday, to reestablish their credibility for the American public.
That's right.
Use that term.
How's that?
That's good.
God damn it.
Really get through it.
Make it very tough and very strong.
I agree.
Because they're on a bad wicket here, and they don't realize it, probably.
I mean, this goddamn Irvin, you know, he steals like a—he's a thief.
And Baker too.
Baker, you know, Dirksen, shit, they stole right and left.
I mean, he's terrible.
He's one of the worst thieves in the Senate.
So you got Baker.
Oh, shit, yes.
God, I guess.
Urban was a, I mean, Dirksen was a multimillionaire stealing.
And where the hell do you think that Baker got his money?
Okay, forget that.
I don't care about that.
They can't believe there's an honest man in this goddamn town, and I happen to be.
Now, goddamn it, put him to the sword.
See what I mean?
I agree.
Yes, sir.
This is the chance.
This is the chance.
It'll force them, and then they are going to have to answer on this thing.
I agree.
We'll do it.
All right.
Anything else new tonight?
Nothing more developing.
No, sir.
I've talked to Herb, and I talked to Len again, and he's up in arms about this.
Yeah, but he can't do anything.
Len's a great guy to talk to Dash and all these other fellows, but he can't do anything with these senators, you know, because...
Now, Dash doesn't do a goddamn thing.
Dash is a goddamn kike who's out to make himself a reputation.
Absolutely.
I mean, we have to be realistic about that.
That is exactly right.
That's exactly right.
And Len knows that, too.
Len is not a kike, so he knows one when he sees one.
You know, he does.
That's right.
But, boy, believe me, we're going to fix these bastards.
Look, we let them get rid of a bugger with a one-day story.
Remember?
Mm-hmm.
It was on their staff, their chief investigator.
Now, goddamn it, we're not going to let them get rid of this one.
It's going to be Molino's scalp or somebody else's scalp on this.
I agree.
They have put out a false story.
I agree.
And we have got to let them live with this story.
I agree.
But not with a half-assed thing.
What did Irvin say?
Well, he had no evidence on it?
What did he say?
Well, that's basically it.
He said that he had no information to support the story is basically what Irvin said.
All right, that's not enough.
That's not enough.
Must apologize.
Retract.
Here's what Ervin said.
He said, I never heard about it before you mentioned it.
Staff lawyers also said they had no such report.
That's all he said.
All right.
All right.
Not enough.
Not enough.
That's right.
That's right.
Not enough.
Lay it out hard and strong.
OK.
Hold on.
Good.
NARA Description
On May 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:15 pm to 9:22 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 046-043 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 46-43
Date: May 14, 1973
Time: 9:15 pm - 9:22 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.
Watergate
-Ziegler’s schedule, May 15
-President’s meeting with congressional leaders
-Gerald L. Warren
-Press briefing, May 15
-Timing
-Handling
-Sam J. Ervin, Jr. and Howard H. Baker, Jr.
-Ervin Committee
-Ziegler’s conversation with Leonard Garment
-Ziegler’s press briefing, May 15
-Handling
-Ervin Committee
-Ervin Committee
-President’s conversation with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Carmine Bellino
-Santa Ana Register story
-Attribution
-Ziegler’s press briefing, May15
-Administration’s demands
-Ervin, Baker, and Everett M. Dirksen
-President
-Ziegler’s conversations
-Herbert G. Klein
-Garment
-Ervin Committee
-Bellino
-26-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
-Story on the President’s finances
-Ervin’s statementAlso recorded on May 15, 1973
- 046-041 9:01 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 9:01 pm to 9:03 pm.
- 046-042 9:12 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:12 pm and 9:15 pm.
- 046-044 9:22 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:22 pm and 9:32 pm.
- 046-045 9:32 PM · 15 sec — White House operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at 9:32 pm.
- 046-046 9:33 PM · 13 sec — White House operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at 9:33 pm.
- 046-047 9:33 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:33 pm and 9:40 pm.
- 046-048 9:33 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:33 pm and 9:40 pm.
- 046-049 9:40 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Leonard Garment, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone from 9:40 pm to 9:46 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 046-043, May 15, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/046-043 (accessed October 1, 2026).