Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 46 › Conversation 046-066
Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and John W. Dean III
Tuesday, May 15, 1973 · 5:01 PM–5:08 PM ET · White House Telephone · 8 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discussed White House media strategy and the ongoing developments regarding Watergate and John W. Dean, III. Ziegler reported that the press was becoming increasingly skeptical of Dean's credibility, and the pair agreed on the need for daily, coordinated briefings among senior staff to present a more proactive, less defensive public posture. They also reviewed the status of sealed documents held by Judge John J. Sirica, with Nixon instructing Ziegler to have J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr. meet with him to further coordinate their response.
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I talked to Buzz Hart and then in turn called Peterson and Sirica has not opened up the box yet.
Oh boy.
And he hasn't provided it to anyone and Buzz Hart has Peterson going, you know, to check on the thing and apply the pressure we can, but the judge just has not opened up the box.
So as soon as I've told Fred there's no greater, you know,
priority on the thing, not to make it known, but it's incredible that he's handling it this way.
I'm talking about Sarika, of course.
That's the report on that.
Anything else?
No, I'm making great headway this afternoon in discussions with these press guys.
Are you?
Yes, sir.
The tone is not negative at all toward...
you know, they're starting to begin to at least attempt to put this thing into perspective in terms of their actual... Just keep driving against it and working against it.
That's what we have to do.
Right.
Right.
So, you're right.
You're right.
It's...
There's no...
I detect very little suspicion or...
about the president.
I think what we're involved here with is that we have to, as we were talking earlier in your office, we have to begin to convey the impression, number one, that we can't prejudice the rights of individuals.
And while doing that, convey the impression of openness.
I simply think that one of the things that we have to do is spend more time, I'm not referring to the president, but I'm referring to all of us in here in the mornings, spending more time preparing for these briefings.
They, at this time, are an important reflection of the White House and the tone of the White House.
That's right.
And what we're not doing is we just start sitting down and spending the time.
And I think, in terms of what we're up against here, Haig and Garment and Buzzhardt and Parker, Doug Parker, the lawyer over there, we should take an hour from 9 to 10 every morning to review the stories and present our case.
That's right.
Because we're not doing that and therefore we're going out there and being defensive and so forth.
There's no more important thing we can do.
And it's really worth it, Ron.
That's exactly right.
And as we do that, for example, your schedule this morning is a positive schedule.
Your schedule tomorrow is a positive schedule.
But what we have to do is prepare our face for the daily briefing.
Yeah.
I think perhaps we're not doing enough of that.
And there are a lot of things that we probably can say, bounce them off of Buzz Hart and Parker and Haig, that we can begin to appear looser and less defensive and so forth.
And I think that's what I was trying to get to today.
Sure.
And, for example, that our witnesses are not pleading, they're being very, very
as far as privilege are concerned.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
They're testifying about their own activities.
That's right.
They're not, you know, residential conversations are only, you know, they're not always privileged.
Well, actually they are unless they're involved.
Anticipating the questions and blocking it out so that we appear not to be infringing on the judicial process, but, you know, we're covering in a very positive way what we're doing.
Yeah.
That's where we are.
Yeah.
You know, this thing about this damn, uh, Neen, uh, box is getting to be ridiculous.
I mean, Jesus Christ.
I mean, I'm, uh, uh, the judge, uh, claims not to know what's in it.
Well, he has not opened it yet.
Yep.
And, uh...
Uh, Neen has only described that it's 43, what's he say, 43?
Well, he hasn't said.
My, my...
He has indicated that there's one 43-page document.
My speculation is that he has his Camp David report and probably some innocuous code material, which Freud just might have maybe as memorandums of conversations with which he may have classified on his own or something.
Which would always be serving for him.
That's right.
There's no question about the fact, Mr. President, when I talk to these press guys, they look at me not as two-faced, but five-faced.
This guy, if we let him go, is going to drive himself right down into the ground.
Yes, sir.
I've got that impression from all spectrums this afternoon, from Edgar Poe to John Apple to Ted Knapp.
the Peter Lissagor, Jack Horner, everyone.
What do they say?
Well, they just say that Dean apparently is launching his own face public relations campaign, that they don't trust him.
Let him run his string here, he's not going to be his apple.
What is his...
He's not a very formidable opponent for the President of the United States.
Which is, as he had a version of being absolutely the truth.
As a matter of fact, as of the present time, he...
seems to say that he's not an opponent of the president.
He does say that, but they even sense if he attempts to build in that direction, he's not.
And these guys are starting to let their hair down.
Many of them are disgusted with the process that's going on.
As they pointed out to me this afternoon, lawyers of these various people call the source stories, and then the principal denies it, and then the next day another lawyer calls to say don't pay any attention to the denial.
They're beginning to get a perspective of what's happening in this town.
Certainly none of it is aimed...
specifically at the president, but they're talking about the process.
And at least we're getting them thinking about this process.
The curious thing that Dean would give an interview to the Star, was it a special interview to just one reporter?
Yes, it was.
But then what, again, was the thrust of the damn thing?
Well, his point was that he's only a speck in the cosmos, and he's not out to get the president, that he's not out to get anyone, that he simply wants his side of the story to be told, and that Haldeman is a hardworking guy and a dedicated guy.
He said he's certainly not out to get the president of the United States.
He doesn't feel he could if he wanted to.
And he made the, I think, very telling point that the president
where he said that John Ehrlichman was something else.
I think that's where his bitterness goes, too.
John Ehrlichman, he uses the words, is something else.
Yes, a precise quote.
Yeah.
Where is Buzzard now, do you know?
In his office.
Yeah, yeah.
Would it be useful for you and him to come over and meet a little while, you think?
I'll come over.
I have a meeting with the White House Correspondents Association.
No, no, no.
Let that go.
I'll get Buzzard to come over.
That's good.
Thank you.
And look, on the box thing, what is the judge saying?
He's not announcing anything?
Or did we get the impression he was going to do it at 4 o'clock?
Well, the impression I had earlier today was that he was going to do it this afternoon at about 4, but he just has not acted.
Mm-hmm.
what Sarika's play is here.
We just don't know.
And Buzzard has dispatched Peterson to try and find out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Ask Buzzard if he would, if he could drop over to my house.
I will.
Yes, sir.
He'll be...
NARA Description
On May 15, 1973, Ronald L. Ziegler and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 5:01 pm to 5:08 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 046-066 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 46-66
Date: May 15, 1973
Time: 5:01 pm - 5:08 pm
Location: White House Telephone
Ronald L. Ziegler talked with the President.
[See also Conversation No. 435-35]
Watergate
-Ronald L. Ziegler’s conversation with J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
-39-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
-Buzhardt’s subsequent call to Henry E. Petersen
-Judge John J. Sirica
-John W. Dean, III’s documents
-Ziegler’s contacts with press, May 15
-Press interest in the President
-Press briefings
-Preparation time
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Leonard Garment, Buzhardt, and Doug Parker
-White House posture
-Dean’s documents
-Sirica
-Dean’s description
-Possible contents
-Camp David report
-Memorandums of conversations
-Ziegler’s contacts with press
-Dean
-Edgar A. Poe
-John Appel
-Ted Knap
-Peter Lisagor
-Jack Hoerner
-Relationship with the President
-Reporters’ reaction to Watergate
-Dean’s interview with Washington Star
-Content
-President
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Buzhardt
-Location
-Possible meeting with President and Ziegler
-Ziegler’s schedule
-Dean’s documents
-SiricaAlso recorded on May 15, 1973
- 046-061 3:38 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George P. Shultz talked on the telephone from 3:38 pm to 3:42 pm.
- 046-062 3:42 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:42 pm and 3:44 pm.
- 046-063 3:44 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 3:44 pm to 3:51 pm.
- 046-064 3:51 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:51 pm and 4:19 pm.
- 046-065 4:19 PM · 41 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 4:19 pm to 4:20 pm.
- 046-067 5:21 PM · 14 sec — J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr. and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:21 pm and 5:45 pm.
- 046-068 5:21 PM · 23 sec — J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr. and Doug Parker talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:21 pm and 5:45 pm.
- 046-069 5:21 PM · 52 sec — Doug Parker and J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr. talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:21 pm and 5:45 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 046-066, May 15, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/046-066 (accessed October 1, 2026).