Conversation 046-088

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Yes, sir.

called all the agencies and told them that the go signal was off and that nothing was to be implemented.

So the point being that basically the president approved the policy and then because of the acting on the recommendation of J. Edgar Hoover and the attorney general,

He revoked the approval within 48 hours and it was disapproved.

Now, he has proof.

Sullivan talked to one fellow, Tartotto or something like that, who says he did get a call from Sullivan to that effect.

He's trying to find others, of course, who can also confirm it.

in the middle of the Pacific.

We'll probably bring him back in a minute.

But the point is, you've got one we know for sure.

But at least Sullivan swears that's what happened.

Now, if we can get him to take these fans up, that's good.

But my point is, when such a thing as Urban Springs is, which is likely to, the

thing to do is to smack it right out of the ballpark.

Yes, sir.

This was a contingency plan that was presented.

It was approved as a contingency plan, and then because of objections of you, Edgar Hoover was disapproved within two days later and never went into effect.

Nothing, whatever drawn was under it, nothing.

Perfect.

Now that's what he says is facts.

I don't know.

So, it's perfect.

I don't think Dean knows this.

I don't think Dean even knew.

He only discovered the goddamn thing he was talking about.

a year later.

So let's let him play his hand.

He'll play his hand a bit, and I'm afraid Erwin will play his, and it'll smear the hell out of us for a while, but I think that's pretty good that it was turned off.

It's perfect.

What do you think?

Yes, sir, it's just perfect.

Well, it's not perfect because it's another crack at the president, but what the hell.

Well, from the standpoint of what

whether we did something, whether we had a long-range plan.

And that's what we're doing.

And the rest, and all the rest, no, sir, nothing, whatever, occurred under it.

Right.

Because it was turned off.

I sort of had recollections of that, if I remember, who were bitched about it and so forth.

And they probably saw me in there or something or called me in there.

I don't know how it happened, but I know that also, I think the reality of it probably is that

back at that time there's a suggestion to meet with this group to coordinate which I did and they sent a they sent a unanimous paper into me which I said fine go ahead and basically I didn't say it but hauled them and told them that I approved it I didn't approve it in writing but hauled them and told them I approved it which is alright but then 48 hours later Sullivan of the FBI of course with my

called everybody and said, it's all off.

See?

That's got to be the firm stand and try to get them all to get lined up for that.

As if and when the thing blows, because it's just another one to hit us with.

Well, I'm not...

I think he thinks he's got a lot more here than he realizes.

That, I think, is the key.

He thinks he's got a great big plan here that went into effect

And it never did.

And never did.

Boy, what a son of a bitch, though, to put out such a thing like this, you know?

They're getting wind of him.

I mean, they're starting to develop the...

I don't know.

Of course, they're giving him immunity and everything.

He's going to really spill his guts.

How would he have to spill?

Well, I don't know.

A lot of it's gonna be pretty rough on him if they ever give me life.

He feels this is what he has to spill.

Now he has this, and it's gonna be an empty cup.

Now on Watergate, he can spill about everything about Ehrlichman ordering him to do this, and Halderman ordering him to do that, and, you know, what he tried to inform me of on the 21st of March.

But then, of course, there's no problem with that because, by God, we stopped the son of a bitch then.

We listened to him, but we didn't do anything.

Well, you did from the 21st of March on.

I know, I know, but I've just got to expect that what we have to realize is that all in all is that everybody around is going to be flappable as hell at this moment.

You know, about going, not you, not Al, but

And I think bizarre not either if, you know, once he begins to get the drift of things.

The fact is that, God damn it, if something was ordered and turned off in two days, which he thinks is the case, as of tonight he's convinced of it, he told us.

Based not only on what Sullivan said, who says he made the calls, that was also the recollection of Houston.

He didn't remember how long it was, but he said it did not go into effect, Houston said.

It's a pretty good record.

And also one of the recipients, at least, he's found.

He's trying to find the others, but they're all out of the country.

Well, that seems to me to be a very, very soulless position.

We don't want you to get out and say that.

Unless we're sure it'll stand up like hell.

And I would hope that they...

We're under string a little bit with it.

And I think Urban's likely to, he's likely to say there is a massive plan for sabotage, not sabotage, but, you know, espionage and not espionage, but, you know, infringing on the civil liberties.

I tried that.

We'll say, all right, fine.

We're fine.

Oh, the other thing was this kind of activity.

was all underway through 1967.

Ramsey Clark then discontinued it.

And the purpose of this meeting was, you know, Sullivan particularly was insisting we should end NSA, that we reinstitute it, see, because of the riots.

And that's how the meeting came about, you see.

And so we decided to, and then decided not to.

That's really what happened, certainly to God's truth.

Sounds very solid to me.

Are you sure you'll get back to the point that 67 had been done?

That's right.

Okay, bye.

Okay, sir.

Bye.