Conversation 046-090

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Yes, sir.

Hi, George.

I'm just sitting here looking at the poll on economic issues by Harris.

And Xerox sent over to you.

And I thought that it would be interesting, and it's probably a good time anyway, if it'll fit everybody's schedules, if maybe at 3 o'clock Friday, I think we've got a cabinet meeting in the morning, that if you, Don Lopp,

Is Stein, will he be back for that?

Mr. President, Stein is in Europe, and I believe he'll be back early next week.

I am scheduled to give a talk in Pittsburgh tonight and in San Francisco tomorrow night, so I would be on my way to San Francisco under present plans on Friday.

All right, well, I'll tell you what you do.

Ignore what I say about meeting Friday, and then...

Let's meet, do you like to meet early next week?

Early next week, set a time.

And when I was met, I said, you, Dunlop, Stein, and I think Ash.

All right.

Arthur, you think, would be useful?

Well, I think it's important to keep Arthur involved all the way in these things.

Well, suppose all of you meet first, you know, in your usual way, and then be ready to meet with me.

All right, sir.

Now, the purpose of it really is to sort of go a little further on the things we discussed yesterday.

I mean, there's this...

what we know is a very negative or rating or lack of confidence in our economic policies, and it's because of the goddamn inflation.

You know, it's an interesting thing.

We're in one hell of a boom, and just because of inflation and, you know, a lot of chatter on it, the hard thing to figure, isn't it?

Hard thing to figure.

Well, people are disturbed about rising prices, and I think they...

have been more disturbed about the feeling that they're kind of exploding than that they're rising right right and i think the fact is that they have stopped the big explosion that we had you think some of this may settle down you're home there's a um yeah a real feeling of unease about now your your feeling at the present time is the one we discussed as i said first uh that uh

despite the fact that I and Renfrew and a lot of other people reflect this as well as the politicians, that even a fellow like Simon has sort of changed his mind now, right?

That is the fact.

And I think when I talk to John Connolly, I can't help but say to him, John, do you think the prices of oil and gas should go up?

The answer is they've got to go up.

What happens if we freeze them?

And there is that dilemma.

Well, there's that dilemma there, and it's a dilemma with a lot of other things.

But the point is that there may be a reason for, you know, very strong political reasons to...

which we override.

When I mean political, I'm not referring to partisan, but the whole confidence and reason to maybe do something and then take the downside that is involved in oil and gas and a lot of other things that are being raised up with.

Or you make an exception in a couple of places.

I don't know.

You know what I mean?

Those are things.

But if you put Dunlop and all the work on it, let's see what we can...

Come, I know you've all been thinking about it, but the consensus at the moment, take Arthur, what is his view, apart from the fact of getting off of the interest panel?

Well, I don't know that Arthur has any different view than the last time you and he and I talked, but... About whether or not we should freeze?

Uh, right.

Uh-huh.

Well, let me get people to understand.

I have a little meeting of our own.

The purpose of this call is not to tell you, develop a freeze program.

The purpose of this call is to indicate that I want you to weigh in to a meeting, the lack of confidence and so forth and so on, on the economic side, and the question as to whether, under those circumstances,

even though we have grave misgivings in some area, we crack it for a while.

Now, 30 days won't do it.

I don't know.

I think that looks like a pip and isn't going to work.

And I know that, frankly, when I look at some of the things, you know, the way the economy is moving, it's cooling in areas that we want, the settlements and labor that you referred to, other things, George, good gosh, I mean...

It's just one of those things where I have a feeling that the explosion is over and now we're just having the lava flow down the damn hill.

Isn't that about it?

Yes.

In the labor field, well, you heard Paul Hall at that meeting.

Yeah.

They don't know quite what they want, but they want something strong.

Right.

But on the other hand, they don't want you to put your cotton-picking hands on their wages.

Right.

They do feel that they've done a pretty good job, or a good job has been done on the wage side, and I think it has.

And the price side has gone up, and the profit picture is very good.

And it needs to be.

We need to have good profits, but it's there.

And it causes them concern.

Well, I'm not second-guessing your economics, you understand, or our economics.

They're basically ours.

But it really gets down to this question.

I just want to be sure we've looked at it all.

And then if we decide it's tough or true, we'll tough or true.

Do you understand?

Yes, sir.

Because, by golly, if it's just going to be a loser, George, we're not going to do it.

We're not going to do it.

And your present feeling is it would be a loser, isn't it?

I know that you had a meeting with John yesterday.

Is he strongly on this?

No, no, no, no.

John was just sort of thrashing around in terms of, well, you've got to do something.

But the other guy, he didn't hit this too hard.

I think he'd cooled off on this one.

I see.

Okay.

But you understand, no, no, no, no.

We had very little on this.

As a matter of fact, this is what triggered me on this was just sort of looking at this.

No, I know that the poles and the sender...

And so on.

Everybody is concerned about it.

You see, this does not prove that we—does not demonstrate it isn't going to.

We're not going to funnel pools down the wrong road.

Now, believe me, we're not going to do it, George.

And I'll—we'll stay till hell freezes over on that.

But on the other hand, if we determine that we could do something with, shall we say, minimal damage in this area, it—

might be worth considering.

That's all I'm suggesting.

Okay.

Okay, sir.

Bye.

I'll be back to you.