Nixon, Ziegler & Eisenhower on Watergate and Ervin Committee

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Uh, yes, sir.

Did you survive the television orgasm?

Well, yeah, I sure did.

How'd it come out?

Well, I think Curlie and Odle did a pretty good job.

They stood up there well against it.

The fact of the matter is that the... Come in.

Hello.

Yeah.

The fact of the matter is that the...

Excuse me.

Hello.

Yes, sir.

You ready?

Oh, I don't know already.

Yeah, I'll be ready in about five minutes.

I'm talking with Ron Ziegler.

Five minutes.

Excuse me.

The fact of the matter is that the country's not responding well to this.

The first reactions, you know, from across the country and over the Nielsen ratings and so forth is that the viewership was down substantially and that people were upset because the soap operas weren't on.

That's my point, Ron.

They want to see this shit.

That's exactly right.

I think new on other fronts.

One thing I want you to, apart from the other fronts, let's come to that later.

It's very important, Ron, that on this business of changes of staff and so forth, it's done now, you see.

Bob and John have moved.

Haig is in.

And I want you to talk to him about that tomorrow.

You're in.

And we aren't going to fight around anymore with this, because I don't want to leave any uncertainty, you know, that we're ready to, you know, to drop anybody.

You understand that?

Yes, I do.

Okay.

That's the decision.

Okay.

What else is new, you say?

Well, I understand that point.

I think we, you know, we all work on this thing, and to the degree that it's right to work on it, I think that's what we're doing here.

In terms of the hearings, as I assess it,

First of all, we have to recognize that they're going to be not well received in the country.

I agree with you totally.

I don't think, that being the reality, I think we cannot allow this, and you've never allowed this to happen in terms of your decision making, allow it to deflect us from reality.

As I mentioned to you in your office, I think there is a base of support that we can

and appeal to in the country.

At the right time.

Now, I think what we have to do more than anything else, and we've been doing this and starting to move in this direction, during this difficult period of the last 30 days, we've passed that now, is to really coldly and positively and thoroughly assess

all of the factors involved in this thing, the Dean factor, which we've been doing, the impression factor, the perception factor, all of these things.

Yeah.

And begin to assess them coldly, begin to move against them effectively.

in a way that doesn't mean that the solution to it is simply to deliver a speech or anything.

One thing that David and Julie both emphasize strongly, they've been in Indiana and other places, they said, for Christ's sake, get out to the country.

They said, the country is all for it.

If we do not...

I think it's good we're going Saturday, but we ought to find another event next week other than the POW event.

I think even before we do that, I think, number one, in terms of the staff state of mind and so forth, is that

First of all, we cannot allow ourselves to set up, I can't allow myself, Al can't, Bazaar can't, none of the people, Garment, none of us, can allow ourselves to begin to set up false premises, which we present to you.

I think we have to... Like you mean on the doctor?

Yeah, well, like on the doctor, yes, sir.

I mean, that's something we shouldn't even be talking about.

What we have to deal in is impressions, as I said, and perception in the country, because there is a base of support out in this country.

There's going to continue to be a base of support.

Our risk, our dilemma, or excuse me, our problem is not whether or not there is a base of support.

major objective is not to lose that base of support.

The attrition of not the hearings as a single factor, but the constant attrition of all of this.

Yeah, the constant hammering.

The constant hammering and

Not allow ourselves, and I know you said today, timing is always a question.

Everyone always says timing is a key.

I know, I know.

Well, the point of it is, if we do not coldly assess what we're up against, and in the harshest terms, assess what we're up against, and misjudge the timing as to when we should move, then we run the risk of not seizing the support.

But we run the risk of losing that support.

There's no question about the fact that the support is out there.

There's no question about the fact that the senators, as this moves along, will make fools of themselves.

There's no question about the fact that the men who are there will do a fairly effective job, as they did today.

But from the standpoint of the presidency, nothing else matters.

Nothing else in this country, in this world matters but the viability and the strength of the presidency.

The support is there.

That's why I've got to be out from time to time.

Yes, I think so, but that is part of the answer.

But it's not the, in other words, it's when you're out and what you do when you're out.

And I don't have the answer now.

We're going to meet tonight again just to kick this around.

Good.

No one's panicked.

No one should be panicked.

Everyone should look at this thing now because here we are up against it now.

The urban hearings are started.

We've got Dean making his move.

We've got most of the factors out before us.

We've got the...

He's on Cronkite tonight, I understand.

Yes, sir.

What's he going to say on that?

Well, I don't know yet.

But we'll take a look at it and assess that as coldly as anything else.

That's right.

And not let it, you know, that's... And not be panicked by it.

Being on Cronkite tonight is only a part of the spectrum we're dealing with.

That's right.

We have to coldly assess it and then move accordingly.

Above all, none of us can give up because there's no reason to give up.

The main thing is that we do not allow...

the men around you, in my view, Mr. President, talking quite frankly, and I don't think any of them are inclined to do it, is to present a false picture to you.

And I think everyone has an obligation to you as a man and who is the president.

Present it as bad as it is.

Present the clear picture to you.

Not the fact that there's a New York break-in or anything of that sort.

I'm talking about presenting a clear picture

after an overall cold, harsh assessment of it, you see?

Right.

And I feel good if we do that, and I feel very positive about— Well, I'm ready, believe me.

—where we can go.

I'm ready.

And the main thing that we must keep in mind, everyone must keep in mind, and I know you have it in mind, is that the country is very, very solid, and the country can be rallied.

in a country is a lot different than this scene that we all find ourselves in in this town of Washington.

But in order to seize the country and get the support and keep the support for the next four years really is the cold assessment and then a very calculated move against it.

And in my mind we have not found that answer yet.

We have not

We have not assessed it as completely as we must assess it yet.

You're thinking in terms basically of a press conference or something?

No, no, no.

Not yet?

Not yet, no.

No, sir.

Not yet.

I'm thinking more in terms of assessing what we say when we say it in relation to how we must anticipate what will come out, what Dean will do,

All of the actors, from McCord to McGruder to Liddy and all of the rest, they say that will not directly implicate the presidency.

They can't do that.

But more importantly, Dina will try, the perception and the impression.

I think Dina tried.

I'm not worried about Dina trying.

We will, I think, severely set ourselves back if we focus too much on him.

Too much on him.

He's only a part of the spectrum.

Only a part of the spectrum.

I agree.

Good.

Well, that's my analysis.

Bring that into it, and let me say, don't worry, I don't want to hear the Pollyanna stuff.

We just get right down to the cold turkey stuff.

Exactly right.

And fight the bastards like we did on November 3rd.

Absolutely, sir.

All right.

Okay, sir.

Nixon, Ziegler & Eisenhower on Watergate and Ervin Committee

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 18, 1973

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