Nixon phone call with Haig on Watergate and White Paper

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They better know the stakes are national security and horse shit.

That's right.

Pick and shovel political dirt, which that's what it is.

It's really all they have.

That's right.

And then we want them to know it, and they're going to take a lot of responsibility in their hands in taking this on.

You're exactly right.

And I think— Can we hold this until Tuesday or can we be ready Monday, you think?

I really think to do this job the way it has to be done, unless we do it Tuesday,

What about the—well, if the other story breaks, let it break.

Yeah, if it breaks, it's going to be a seepage break instead of a high-push platform, the kind that— Oh, you think so?

—the other two, yeah.

They aren't just going to leak the papers, so— Yeah, there'll probably be some leakage in the— But not just put them out, period?

No, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

I think— They know what they're playing with.

They know they're playing with dynamite.

Yeah.

And so the same true as the Dean paper, shit, they put that out.

They know what that is.

No, we know that that won't get leaked.

They were going to hold that until Wednesday and then make an assessment of what portions of it they could release.

Yeah, we'll be up to the punch there, you see.

That's right.

And let's put it all out, Al.

Hang the whole goddamn thing out.

That's what I want to do.

That's what I think.

Then you got the best assessment of the...

And Jimmy made a very interesting point that, uh, is a terrible thing to suggest to you.

He said that instead of getting Ziegler to brief on this, that you might.

Well, yes.

You willing?

Sure.

You see what I mean?

You see what I'm getting at?

Yes.

This gets right down to the whole, the nothing bolts.

Only if it's true.

You understand?

If it's total truth, you say, now look here, let's see what this damn thing's about.

That's what you see.

Getting the president out on national television saying it's a hell of a crisis and so forth, I think has a tendency to overplay the urban hearings, overplay me, overplay that I'm guilty and I'm going to resign and all that bullshit.

God damn it, I'm not going to do that.

No, I don't think that's a good time for it.

And it's better to have there be another time when I don't want to do it.

That's right.

When it comes a little tougher.

It'll get tougher, you see.

Oh, it's going to get tougher.

All right.

But would you talk to Ron about that?

Maybe the white paper, in my view, is the best thing, plus a congressional leaders' meeting, plus maybe a briefing by you.

And Ron says I should go up before the press.

I will, but I'm not so sure right now.

I'm just—before these goddamn indictments, they're going to indict some people.

You know that.

Oh, yes.

For that time, Duke Richardson will have his prosecutor and all that horse shit.

I see you got a humdinger.

Who do you got?

A fellow named Cox that used to be his solicitor general for Kennedy.

Oh, I know him.

I hear he is.

He's not very bright, but he's very well respected.

Yes, conscientious.

I don't think he's too bad.

Did he take him?

Well, they haven't endorsed him yet, but he's out, and it'll be hard for them not to.

Oh, gosh, if he asks Cox to do this, they can't turn Cox down, believe me.

No, I don't see how they can.

Cox is not a mean man.

He's a partisan, but not that mean.

That's right.

That's the way the description I got.

Much better than Warren Christopher.

Oh, God, yes.

That would have been a disaster.

Believe me, if he could get Cox, that'd be great.

All right.

Are you keeping all the other people that are just not going to resign, or Ruckelshauser, and these other bricks?

Well, they're all happy.

But Ruckelhaus is getting eaten alive over there.

He's not long for this world.

And I've— Eaten alive about what?

Well, he's—what you need over there is a tough son of a bitch.

And— Miller can't do it.

Well, Miller, I've—

I've got a test being made on it.

Colofano I talked to about Miller and he said he doesn't think he's good enough or tough enough.

What about Colofano?

Well, he'd do it if he would be willing to take it on, I'm not so sure.

I know.

He's I think got bigger ideas for himself.

Yeah.

Well, in any event, Runk isn't going to crumble at the moment, is he?

No, no, but he's just being used by these guys.

He thought he was going to make a peace settlement in that place.

And they're eating him alive, huh?

Yeah, what he should have done was fire a lot of people.

Yeah, so all those people are tearing him up, huh?

Yeah.

Damn it, Tom, you stand firm.

I will.

Everybody else is in good shape.

Yes, sir.

I don't see any problems.

And I think that cabinet meeting today was a goddamn solid thing to do at the right time.

The cabinet all went out of there feeling that they're— Part of the team.

Part of the team.

They got a chance to guess a little bit about what they're doing.

Yep.

And that's important to them.

And they need to do that, you know.

We should do that more often.

Man, they cross-fertilize each other at a meeting like that.

Well, should I see Ruck tomorrow, you think, or no?

I can't because I'm going down to Norfolk.

No, I don't think you need to see him.

Just tell Ruck to stand firm that they can get bigger things in mind for him, huh?

Okay, that's the way to do it.

Okay, you tell him that.

Yes, sir.

Stand firm.

Shit, he's going to come out all right.

He's just inheriting the whole whirlwind of the Hoover days.

Exactly right.

He knows this, doesn't he?

Well, I'm sure he knows it.

He had a hell of a week last week.

Right.

But let's think a little bit more in terms of the white people rather than a big speech.

That's exactly what we're thinking about.

And we all pretty well concluded this today.

That's the stuff.

Because, you see, I really think that's the right thing.

I mean, just put the goddamn whole thing out.

Talking to the audience that really is concerned about this rather than

rather than getting the whole nation stirred up about something, you see.

About something that doesn't deserve that kind of— Yeah, well, it may deserve it.

It may deserve it, but they're not quite ready for it.

Not quite ready for it, you know.

No, that's— They hear the television and the rest, but— Well, this is Ron's view, too.

He feels very strongly about that.

Right.

So I think we're all—

And we can get a hell of a white paper.

We really can.

But then I think on that, if I may respectfully suggest, rather than Ron briefing you, if you don't mind, you can consider briefing on it.

Fine.

I'll do that, sir.

You see what I mean?

Right.

Oh, Henry's really discouraged, huh?

No, no.

He wants to fight.

Yeah, but he says he's having trouble with the other side.

Oh, well, yeah.

He said they're just turning about like they were in December.

Yep.

And then I purposely— Yeah, that we were going to do some things.

Yeah, that's right, sir.

I said, well, that's fine.

It'll help us clear the air back here, because that's an opportunity.

Good.

Well, I hope you and Ron aren't discouraged, old boy.

No, sir.

We feel just fine.

You know, in a strange way, this may be the turning point.

This may be the time to fight.

And on our issue rather than on the goddamn other issue.

That's right.

This is our issue.

Right.

I'd like to see those leaders when we tell them about what Hoover did and what he wouldn't do and so forth and so on.

Yeah, it's a very interesting...

And as a matter of fact, the funny thing is that the goddamn Stu Alsop piece is going to come out and almost parallel this.

Okay.

Totally on his own.

The point is that what we've got to bring out in this paper is one, we did tap for good reasons.

Two, we did have a plumber's operation because Hoover wouldn't do it.

Three, that in terms of the CIA, yes, I was goddamn interested and I was trying to keep them the hell out of it.

because they didn't want them involved.

They didn't want them, you know, which was the reason rather than the one that Walters implied, because Walters wrote his memorandum at the end of his conversations rather than the beginning.

Exactly.

That's a teamwork to move them, right?

That's right.

I think this will help to clear the air a great deal.

If we can get

these facts down in the right way and we ought to answer every goddamn allegation in the book.

That's right.

Answer it and have it on the record to see, oh, that's the point.

Then the assholes and the Congress and the rest and all the rest of the people that write about this will have something that they can look at.

Ron will have something he can always respond to.

He can have something he can say, all right, it's all answered in the paper.

What's your next question, John?

Rather than having me go on television in an emotional speech,

saying, look, rally the country in terms of, you know, by God, we did this because we were trying to, you know, to avoid the bugging and so forth, you know, of the national security.

I'm just a little afraid of that.

I'm a little afraid of that.

It just doesn't strike me right.

Well, we certainly have no signs from the core country that anybody's sitting up nights threatening about this.

They're thinking about other things.

It's got nuts here and there.

Well, you know, as you said and as Ron said, of course the country's a lot more concerned about the cabinet indicator.

I know that shit.

Oh, yeah.

But on the other hand, they're not as concerned as Ron and the others think they are looking at it from Washington, you see?

That's right.

That's the point.

Okay, let's work our ass over the white paper.

I'll make my speech at Norfolk, and then I'll be available Sunday to work on the white paper.

Okay, boy?

Good, Mr. President.

You should come up Sunday if you don't mind.

No, that's fine, sir.

All right, boy.

You and Price and whoever else.

Bye-bye.

Good, Mr. President.

Nixon phone call with Haig on Watergate and White Paper

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 19, 1973

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