Conversation 046-168

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Hello.

Mr. Holmes.

Hello.

Oh, Bryce, are you home?

Yes, sir.

Well, I just wanted to tell you that, just speaking in sort of sentimental terms, that I really appreciated what you said tonight.

That was very, very thoughtful.

As a matter of fact, you know, I went through the agony of Adams.

Nobody ever knew what I went through.

You know, I did the firing, as you know.

Oh, I know.

And the president wouldn't do it.

And God damn it, I did the right thing.

And it was terrible.

I just damn near died.

I know.

But the point of the matter here is that in your case, my God, you know, with so many people flapping around, for you to come in and sort of shore these guys up has been a

You know, you sort of wonder if you've got any friends sometimes, don't you?

You don't.

You don't know.

You're not questioning that, are you?

Not in the country, I don't think, but, you know, in the Congress.

Oh, no.

No, Mr. President.

You've got more goddamn friends.

No, no, seriously.

Huh?

You've got a hell of a lot of friends.

They've all been standing by waiting.

Let me tell you what happened tonight.

Danny Kirkendall of Tennessee called me.

Danny is just excited over your statement.

Good.

He's a liar.

He's just filled with hell and brimstone.

And so he is getting ahold of George Bush and he's getting ahold of Hugh Scott and Jerry Ford.

He wants to get them to sign a common telegram all across the country.

That's what we ought to have.

That's what we need.

He wants to get a wire.

He's just all on fire.

He read your statement tonight to his family.

Did he?

Yeah.

I mean, the cover, the cover, the brief one, yeah.

No, no, the whole thing.

Copy that.

What did he say?

And he said, well, he said this.

He said...

You don't know Danny very well, of course.

No, I don't.

Well, no, I like him very much, you know.

There was a hell of a fight.

I thought he was a real fighting guy, you know.

I know.

All right, now, Danny's wife, she is pretty close to a bircher.

Good.

Oh, she's well over there.

Now, as soon as he finished reading, as soon as he did the statements tonight in his home,

She lowered her head.

She's very deeply religious.

Yeah.

And, incidentally, I must tell you, extremely lovely.

Oh, good.

Oh, yeah.

Good God, she's beautiful.

She lowered her head, and she said, thank God.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

Do you think that... You see, whatever the press does with the statement of help of the folks... What I was trying to say to you tonight, over there at your place, was...

that this is a watershed.

You understand there's more shit going to fly, though, Bryce.

Huh?

You've got to figure there's more shit going to fly, though, after that.

Oh, no, no.

I mean... No, you have to take one step.

Yeah.

And there was no step at all.

But this is a step.

And this thing, this thing now...

We'll fructify, and then you have to have your press conferences.

You've got to go through that.

Yeah.

And this thing, we're on our way out.

On the way out.

I have no question about that.

We're on our way out now.

Well, there'll be more crap, though.

You've got to understand that there's all sorts of people in the woodwork now that are cracking and saying silly things and so forth.

Well, of course there will be.

And you are in deadly danger from close friends.

I know that.

But I mean, there's no sense in...

fussing around about that, of course you are.

And you may have to testify before that committee.

You may, in lieu of that, do the other thing.

I don't know that.

And you don't know that.

There's no way to tell, because these people may crap on you.

Now, I don't mean to say they're bad, but they face very serious problems.

I don't think you're going to find that Erlichman, Haldeman, or Colson will.

Well, I don't think so either.

And I don't think that you will find this from anybody.

I really don't think you'll find it.

But rather than testifying, you see, if I ever testify, that's bad.

But I could make a statement to them.

Well, I'm not concerned about those.

I think those things are detailed.

You are now on your way out of this goddamn thing.

I haven't any question about that.

I really don't.

The country wants to be with you on this thing.

They have not had anything that's present.

another time to put their hats on.

Do you understand that one of the things that everybody's going to feel here, Bryce, is this, you know, you talk about the Republican Party and so forth, and you talk about the situation in the world, and you talk about our left-wing friends.

They say, well, the president ought to, you know, resign, all that horseshit.

Do they want Agnew to be president right now?

That's the key point, isn't it?

No, it's not a key point.

I don't think it's a key point.

You don't?

No, sir.

I'm sorry.

I don't think that's a key point.

This whole thing is airsoft.

Well, it's not really.

No, it's deeper than that.

It's not really.

There's been a lot of bad stuff done.

It's not really bad.

It means stuff that doesn't work well with the morality of the American people.

And I'm against it.

God damn it.

But I should have controlled it.

I'm sorry, Mr. President.

I don't agree with that totally, and you know I don't.

I think that you should have... Well, I don't want to get into that.

I just don't think that you should have been put in this position.

I really don't.

But anyway...

I'm not concerned about that very much.

I think that this thing is on its way out.

You have finally gotten put together a basic paper.

That's what you needed, a basic paper.

And like Danny says, send it out across the land and get the people to start talking the damn thing up.

If Danny's idea of getting a, you know, sort of a statement by

Maybe, you know, even like 150 members of the House even could sign a statement or some goddamn thing.

No, they won't print that in the paper.

It never is gone.

I see.

I've done that before.

I had 91 members of the House get up on one day in the House.

They won't print it, I see.

And it didn't even get the papers.

But to get that across the land, not from you, and... All right.

Not from your minions, but from George Bush and Jerry and Hugh.

Look here, boys.

Our guy stood up here, and here's what he said.

Let's talk it up.

That's a hell of a good thing.

And they're doing it, you see, and the great thing about this is this is self-generating.

You think so, huh?

I mean, I'm talking about Danny.

Archie, yeah, yeah.

You see, he's on fire.

Good.

He's just eager to do this.

And that's what I'm talking about this evening.

This thing is a watershed statement.

The guys will come out of the woodwork.

You know the situations.

You've been there.

Oh, boy.

The only point is that during the Eisenhower years, nobody had asked me, good God,

I was defending Dulles, defending Eisenhower, defending everybody, and Sherman Adams, you know.

Well, of course you were.

Of course you were.

But you don't see other people doing that for the present now, do you?

Yeah, damn it.

You're made out of steel, these guys.

You know how they are.

They are tough and they run around.

And that's the way people are.

They're weak.

Yeah.

And they're worrying about their jobs and

Yeah, I know, I know.

But I think things over the hump.

I honestly believe this.

I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad.

Well, it'll be rough for a few days and a few weeks.

No, other things I'll be shot at.

And this is one step in the battle.

Yes, yeah.

That's what you think, huh?

Yes, sir.

It's one step, but I think it's a critical step because you have been

forced to kind of sit there and study it and take the crap and fiddle around until this was said.

But I think you're out of the underbrush now.

You see, when you talk, though, about rights, it's something like having me testify before the committee.

If the president ever moves in that direction, I'm afraid the presidency will be destroyed.

Well, I absolutely, personally, totally agree with it.

But don't rule it out.

Go ahead.

The reason you mention it.

The only reason I mention it is when Bill and I went up this morning to take this statement up to the leaders, it just was discussed as a possible way out.

And it was discussed rather favorably for a little while there.

Right.

I understand.

You know, those fellas and

It's their turf, you know.

I know.

They know their own turf.

Right.

And they think, well, their turf.

You know, you used to like that turf.

Yeah.

And then George Bush said, wait a goddamn minute.

I'm not so sure I think that's very smart at all.

Good for him.

No kidding.

He stood right up to—

Bobby Griffin and Hugh.

Les and Jerry were just kind of sitting there and listening to it.

Yeah, I know.

They hadn't taken any position.

George said, Look, Bobby.

for the President of the United States to sit down before about six or seven bastards, and he said, I'm not trying to demean Howard Baker or any of these guys, but from the standpoint of America, subject himself to that kind of...

I won't do it, no.

He said, it just seems to me like there's something wrong in that for the Presidency of the United States.

And he said, I'm not trying to extol the presidency.

I'm not trying to have guilt or lily or that kind of thing.

He said, I'm just saying there's something wrong about that.

Yeah.

And he said, I think you'd better think about that a little as to what you're doing to the system that we belong to.

Well, he cooled it real good.

You see, I didn't have time to read your statement to them.

I just gave them a piece of it.

I went through the pages, flipping the pages and talking briefly.

But you see, they're all nervous in the service.

Sure.

Do you remember the expression?

Nervous in the service, right?

Nervous in the service.

And I told Al tonight when you walked out,

I said, well, I hope you'll suggest to the president that over the course of the next two or three weeks that he take this same crowd up as he did about three or four years ago to Camp David.

Yeah.

And stay out there around the pool.

The weather now is right for that.

Right.

Yeah.

Kick it around.

Right.

Now, I'll tell you why I said it.

Bobby Griffin told me this morning, he said, Bryce, he said, when I was going with your statement, you know, he said, the only time I felt like I ever had a real visit with the President, not just a meeting with him, but a real visit with him, was up at Camp David when he did his ones.

Well, we'll do that.

That's a good point.

I mean, the fellas don't feel like they're close enough to you.

And they'll just come, boy, they'll come just like a bunch of slaves.

Let me suggest one thing in terms of what I had in mind with you.

Let me say, I don't have in mind basically having you take any assignment to do a goddamn thing.

Basically, I do think, though, you see, Al's carrying a terrible load here.

He's the only man I can talk to

who's an adult.

You see what I mean?

Now, what I need, basically, is a man, you know, who is trusted by everybody that you can come in in the morning and say, now, God damn it, here's what we're going to do and not going to do, and then you can... You see what I mean?

We just really need a presidential assistant without portfolio.

That's what I really need, very much at this point.

Now, Mr. President, I want to help you in any way I can.

You know,

I know.

I have a complication at the moment.

I told Hal about it.

Yes, I know.

And it all crescendos in June.

Yeah.

And in the interim, between now and the time I can get that taken care of, any time I can do anything for you, I will do it.

Good.

Well, if the fellows know, too, that you're talking, that's very good, you see, Bryce, because—

I got this in spades from the southern chairman.

That's right.

Speak to the southern chairman.

Right.

And Captain Phillips had spoken to them before.

I know.

You heard George talking about this.

And I told them off.

Right.

But then they wanted me back in the White House.

I know that.

I don't know why they want me exactly, but... No, I know.

They think I'd be their slave, you know.

But we don't want you there for that.

I want you there as a presidential... Basically, I've got to have somebody to talk to.

That's really what it gets down to, Bryce.

You understand me?

You see what I mean?

For anything you want me for, you've got me.

You know that.

Well, I appreciate it.

Okay, boy.

All right, then.

Well, keep the faith.

Oh, I got it.

Okay.

All right.