Nixon, Cabinet officers & Rogers on Revenue sharing and Vietnam War

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Most appreciative of what the government has done.

Family and the other people involved.

Half of us didn't get to talk to each other.

Mr. President, that connection I noticed was that somebody who showed us a story from a Boston paper criticizing what the president was saying, that we had decided to put the passengers on the plane, but it's absolutely false.

I don't think anything could have been handled more appropriately.

Mr. Young made the decision, but the plane is laid down, and the plane is laid back.

We got in touch with her right away.

We got Barbara Watson, the Bible notifier, saying about her death and that she was affected by it, so it was a nice shock.

But I think the third thing I've seen is that it will come on absolutely.

In fact, that's the reflection.

And I think any criticism we get about it will stop right away because it's true people think that.

Yes, we will.

I just thought it was a disaster.

I was just stood by a lost neighbor.

Just said that Nancy Clark was stupid about the way we handled it.

She did?

She did.

Sounds like we did well.

He was an honest reporter.

Yeah.

Well, that's it.

We're here at 30 minutes for Mr. Dolp on that subject.

That's right.

No, I did it.

All right.

Well, I do want to enjoy it.

Well, there's a great effort going on in this government, sir.

And if your case is about to recover that, you know.

This week, 119 different administration officials will be talking to different groups, one person to the other.

As you take a look at the basic situation, you have a majority of members of Congress still sitting on the fence.

You don't have many against, but you don't have a majority for.

A majority are still sitting on the fence in both houses.

I think the...

The basic problem is the number of minority groups, and I include the economic groups as well as the racial groups, are inclined to oppose and some of them in active opposition.

The problem is going to be to reduce their opposition as much as possible by the way in which these special revenue sharing bills are finally formulated.

And then to go out with a massive public campaign to develop public support, because as far as I can see, the one way to overcome the resistance of those who benefited from these categorical assistance programs in their national administration is to build up that massive public support to register with Congress.

Unfortunately, the National Governors Conference has taken the lead in helping to set up this National Citizens Committee, headed by Governor Strandman, former Governor Brewer of Alabama.

Unfortunately, this National Citizens Committee, which is a very represented group, including mayors like Stokes of Cleveland,

has received very little petty attention.

I didn't know about it until I went over here to talk with Morgan and the fellows that worked to help get this set up.

But the National Citizen Committee was set up at a meeting called by Governor Scott of North Carolina and then, you know, Fulton of Virginia.

And the purpose there is to get the governors through the

country and the mayors to set up citizens groups in each state to go to work, to develop public support, and to educate people with expected sums and programs.

Thus far, only two state citizens committees have been created, but other governments have indicated they're going to establish them.

They have created a staff, and the

The staff man who's here in Washington is the former Veterans Administration head under Eisenhower, a competent man.

And he and the governor's conference, the staff man, are following up with the governor.

They've provided them up to get these citizens committees organized.

I think we need to do everything we can to encourage mayors and other local officials to vote for these citizens committees and then to make them as effective as we can in getting public support.

Now, the congressional liaison people are undertaken to identify the position of each member of Congress so that there can be a determination of the states where the greatest effort needs to be put forth in order to influence the position of the congressional delegation.

And with the help of Deb Mori and his staff, the strategy is being developed both with respect to the general record-sharing program and achieving it, and also the special record-sharing program.

So I think at this stage, a good deal of effort is being put into it, but it's going to take a tremendous public selling card, in my opinion, and the expression of public support to overcome some of these resistances of the expression of selling today.

We don't see an alternative plan listed as impossible.

The alternative that they have is to spend the money like...

I wonder if there's enough steam behind the whole idea of general revenue sharing to resist having to go to other means?

No, at this point, that's not certain.

As a matter of fact, the indication is that Mills himself has made them out with a combination that would consist of family assistance, and a couple with some from the General Revenue Service.

That would be a two-fold approach.

But he's working on it.

And of course, there are odds that...

I think one of the most significant things that's happened is this shift in position on the part of Burns in Missouri.

as a result of your meeting in Des Moines.

He had previously been advocating support for the welfare approach of mills.

He talked to mills when it was done.

After hearing what mills had in mind, and after hearing of the programs in Des Moines, he came out publicly for revolution.

But if you take a look at these various alternatives, including the one that John Burns set out today, he talked about tax credits.

Well, the problem with tax credit is that a number of states can't tell you how bad the tax credit is, of course.

It would be some time before states or cities, in most cases, obtain any relief.

So, from a realistic standpoint, I think the revenue sharing approach is the sound approach, which is what I think is going to happen.

I'm going to ask George to be among any opposition anywhere in the country.

I've been in Atlanta, St. Paul, Minneapolis, Cleveland.

I've talked to...

Editorial boards, law papers, business groups.

I didn't find any one individual among all those I talked to who said they wouldn't support it after they heard it explained fully.

Well, you've got groups like this.

You've got the labor groups like this.

You've got some minority groups that are fighting aspects of the programs.

In the case of agriculture, you've got the extension service people still uncertain as to whether they're going to fight it or whether they're going to support it.

And this gets back to the way in which their programs are dealt with.

If they're left at the mercy of the states...

They're likely to fight it.

But if they can get assurance, such as we've given cities and minority groups, that they're going to be held harmless, then I think we'll have the extension service with us.

I think it's very important to have the extension service people with us, because they're really grassroots of the country.

I agree with Murray, that whenever you spell it out, you get support.

And I think public service support can be built up.

I think as far as members of Congress are concerned, there are a lot of members of Congress who are uncertain as to how this is going to get their particular area.

In the case of our program, for example, Shirley of Iowa, he became concerned because he thought that Council Bluffs in his district might get less money than they've been getting under

model cities for urban renewal and all these other programs they've benefited from.

We haven't yet perfected the formula for all these cities who've been getting special treatment, because there are a lot of cities getting special treatment.

Take a look at it.

All them harm us at the same time treat the other cities fairly.

Now we think we're just about home, but until we can do that, and until we can present the

At that appropriate to the cities and the mayors that makes it clear that they're going to be held harmless in the case where they've had urban and urban model cities and so on, and that the others are going to be treated better than they have been like, we're not going to be able to convince them that they are.

I think Mr. President would be very helpful if you could meet with some of these mayors in the very near future, because they're making a good deal out of the fact that they've been trying to see you, and haven't been able to see you in some months, and they're getting a good deal of publicity on that basis.

I know that a member I haven't gone in to, he was recommending that while they're here next week, the mayor's going to be here Monday and Tuesday next week.

Which group is this?

Well, it's both groups.

I met with the Congress of Mayors.

I met with Lugar and all that group.

The suggestion is that Lugar, who's chairman of the Cleveland Cities, and Dave, who's chairman of the Congress of Mayors, jointly asked to designate 560 to come in and visit with you during the course of their conference.

Because they need to be...

I agree with Morrison that the more we can get out and explain the program

I think the press of these state and citizen committees can be a vocal partner to develop that support.

The press is very important, and meeting with the editorial boards seems to be a very satisfying thing, because it's evident in every case that they didn't know what we were talking about until it was explained.

And then they're responding in favor of us.

I think furthermore...

Those of us who have special revenue sharing programs need to get up on the hill and meet with our committees as soon as possible and spell out how the programs are going to operate and make certain to get theirs.

I know John's been up there.

He spent five hours yesterday afternoon here at the White House with six different committees.

It's a very good assessment of public risk.

I think it's clear that we need to press forward to get action this year because

We're not as likely to get access to these licenses.

So we could get this here, or else it's classical.

I'm not sure what you're feeling.

Do you feel about this as you did about the way you came up with the captain, the government, the organization?

Yes, sir.

I think that's all there is to be lost present to you.

Unfortunately, we have both the leaders of the committee handling the legislation.

They're both good.

This is a tough combination.

It's a little smart.

It's a little knowledgeable.

And I don't know if it's hopeful.

We can achieve everything we want, but I don't have any choice.

In other words, I have no choice but to keep at it as long as we can.

I think beyond any question, they're going to come with some kind of a substitute plan.

But the amount of pressure that's put on them probably will determine the type of substitute they come with.

So I don't have a choice.

I don't have a choice.

The point is to ask them about Joe and Sonny taking that extra $3 billion in Social Security and saying, that's a big chunk of revenue sharing.

He's allowed to do precisely that.

Then the problem with what we're discussing here is that we send the signal out to the mayors and the other interest groups and have pound mills on that point.

There's a two or three percent of time for that.

We're going to start.

By the time you get the word out and get the word back, it'll be time to hit him.

It's not an instantaneous reaction.

Today it would be too early to hit him.

But by the time you talk to the mayor, by the time they kick it around and decide what they're going to do, and begin to apply pressure back up here, by the time it would be about right that you hit him.

But he's turned into very much of a political animal this year.

He's as bad as he's going to be next year.

So if you're Rex Bach, you probably know, or some of you know better than I, but I'd say Bill is acting very, very much like this was an election year this year.

I don't think there's any question about it.

Do you disagree with that?

No, I don't.

George Bush, I live with him.

I think he's playing far golf on the political course.

No question.

It's not going to change.

You put enough pressure, and he's going to have to come up with some kind of a substitute, George, just like you're talking about.

How good the substitute is, how acceptable it will be, will depend on how much pressure he has on it.

You disagree with that at all?

No, Mr. Secretary, I do not.

I think he's coming to us with the additional 3.7 billion dollars in the Social Security package tied to the debt ceiling increase, and he's going to come at us, not directly, but supporting the Democrats to maneuver on accelerated public works, and then he's going to come at us and take away the cost of the aged, blind, and disabled under Social Security.

He's going to spend all your money, Mr. President, on the law.

General Revenue Sheriff, he's going to spend that $5,000 that he's going to give you the choice of continuing to press for a General Revenue Sheriff by breaking the line on your bullet department button or cutting other things out of the place which he doesn't think you're in a position to do.

That's what you're trying to do.

For health, good.

For good.

For position, Mr. President, I think the groups I've talked to, and I've talked to a lot of them,

All those conservation groups and the cattle groups, land people.

I think as far as the natural resources area is, there's a big groundswell for it.

Rural America.

I can't tell you about the other areas because I haven't gotten any real exposure to them.

But there really is a feeling that this will improve.

I had planned, primarily, to visit Southeast Asia, where we have post-Federal Aviation Service people who are working in South Vietnam and Southeast Asia, as well as the United States Coast Guard.

I requested the President to convene over and lead the American delegation to the Oils Dose Conference at the NATO CCMS meeting,

This question, and the date was just about the time I was to leave for this trip.

The question was, I keep on going that way, or come back and go back the other way, and we decided to keep on going, and so went around the world.

I have a little better appreciation of some of my colleagues that have to do an awful lot more traveling than I do, because we touched down in 15 countries in 21 days.

We actually visited twice.

The...

The oil spill conference, which I keynoted, was a very successful meeting.

We proposed at that conference that by mid-decade, intentional oil spills would be stopped, as the oil spillage could get from the houses and so forth, and ships, and the success of that was measured by the fact that the resolution was passed.

At that point, I myself pretended to be the first of the day, and

and then we went on about other activities and led with Cook at Maine, and we did get a resolution passed along these lines, and the International Maritime Organization is working along these lines for the present time, so we got a very successful meeting.

In addition to this meeting, of course, as long as we were going to go around in one direction,

We decided that inasmuch as we were doing a great deal of cooperative research work with quite a few nations, that it would be desirable to stop in some of those nations, whose either ministers of transport, or in some cases as in India, the Speaker of the Parliament has visited with me, to stop in those nations and develop a better understanding.

We were able to share information and approaches both in the areas of aviation security, which was used primarily at that time, as well as automobile safety and social security, together with particularly public transportation, which we have been pressing and regional planning.

The visit really allowed us, in the field of automobile safety,

to actually nail down in a probably quicker period, and I think that any international agreement, even bilateral, hasn't been accomplished, and that is that we were able to sign on this trip, and all the fact that we have established a fine relationship with the Minister of Transport, particularly in Germany, would indicate that we need to try to get an agreement ready for me as a Christmas present.

I notified him in mid-October I was going to be there on the 2nd of October, but he advanced that Christmas present the 2nd or 3rd of November.

He said that was quite an honor, but he tried, and sure enough he did.

We did sign an agreement there, providing for the building of an experimental safety vehicle in the 2,000-pound class.

We already have an order for three contractors in this country for the construction of 14 experimental safety vehicles in the 4,000-pound class, which is the class that we use mostly here.

We also were able to sign an experimental safety agreement with Japan.

So both of those countries are now working on experimental safety vehicles.

I'm very hopeful that we can sign three additional contracts with three other countries, European countries, within approximately a couple of six weeks.

in which we will be then exchanging the safety information we develop, so that they won't feel that we're trying to ram something down their throats by way of developing safety standards which they can't possibly meet, and then be unable to compete in the market here, for the same token they could very easily turn around and say, OK, General Motors, get out of here.

We have a goal, and what we're shooting for, NEO has a goal, and that's

Yes, by 1975, we're hoping that we'll be able to have a car, or 76, we'll have a car that's 30 miles an hour, you can crash into anything you want to crash into, and walk out of that vehicle without having anything but a few crashes.

By the interchange of information,

We're not duplicating the research that Jim and Japan are doing with the same program.

They're not duplicating it.

Five years later is something we'll have on the Google.

Fifty miles an hour, five years later.

We have a very, very... And this is not just a rule of law report.

This is not just a relevant possibility.

This is a very, very common possibility.

And then to encourage drunk drivers.

Because we're spending a good deal of additional money this year on our combination program.

One of the other things that we did...

I had General Davis with me, and we visited, of course, many airports.

We visited twelve major airports in addition to the six we had already visited when we took our trip with you to Italy.

And spectacular results and exchange information on air security, on anti-hydration measures.

And it was as a result of that trip that we had such a very successful conference at the State Department, in which the State Department was very, very helpful

having 81 nations represented, and even the Soviet Union coming into the meeting, finally at the last moment, more delegates, and they have now joined the International Civil Aviation Organization, which up until this time, they had refused to do.

So, I think that was extremely helpful.

We were able to meet with the heads of state, both in Thailand and South Vietnam, Philippines and Japan.

And I'd like just to take a moment about our visit to South Vietnam, which I think was very important.

I might say first, however, that there is a regional planning survey being conducted by eight nations in Southeast Asia.

Some of these nations, and I'm sure Bill will say much better than I can, in the past of having talked to each other.

As a result of one million dollars from the South East Development Bank,

And a million dollars they put up themselves.

A three million dollar transportation, regional transportation service.

Those people have been talking to each other now.

They're developing a plan to work with each other.

And this is the kind of thing which I think we are encouraging as a Nixon doctrine.

And frankly, the do-it-yourself proposition is really catching on there.

Because they understand that we're not just going to continue to feed them to...

Direct the way and everything else.

We're going to try to get people to see money, give directions and so forth, but in the final analysis, they've got to do the job themselves.

And they buy it as long as they deal.

We're not just retiring and pulling on people.

Southeast Vietnam, just for a moment, by May, I had lunch with General Abrams in Hawaii, and I went out to see my old outfitted CVs, and I talked with 28 Massachusetts boys, enlisted men,

And there are good and many other people there, not just the brats.

And this was about six months, seven months after Cambodia started.

It was, what, three, four months after it ended.

And the general reaction of the boys, and the generals as well, particularly the boys, thought it was, well, we found out before Cambodia we were fighting with two hands tied behind our back.

At least now we're fighting with only one hand tied behind our back.

The morale that they claimed, as far as I saw, was just so much higher as a result of the fact that they knew that at least those sanctuaries were the hell out of the way, and confirmed what I had learned from one of the Democratic governors that I was asked to call on the day we invaded Kempoli, and that was that one of the generals, the last day he was there, indicated, going 38 miles from where we're standing right now, the governor,

There is a sanctuary, there are four more just like it along the border.

And until we wipe out those sanctuaries, we're going to continue to kill American boys.

And this war is just never going to end.

So that was certainly, if I needed any further confirmation, confirmation of the wiseness of your decision and the very courageous action which you took there.

So I came away from South Vietnam with a feeling that we were on the right track, that the

Laos operation is another one of those things I think took also some courage, but on the other hand, if we are stopping the offensive which they would have undertaken, and are able to prevent our boys from being attacked as they would have been had this not taken place, I think that would do the job.

I would only hope, Mr. President, that not only would we be able to meet the deadline of 284,000 by the 1st of May, but maybe even down to

I happened to be speaking with a dove today from the Senate on the way back from New York.

He hoped very much that if we get it down to 250,000, he might have some very kind words to say about us.

If we get it down to 250,000 instead of 284,000.

It was a very wonderful trip.

I can't say enough about the splendid cooperation we had.

Wherever we went, we were very, very proud of some of the impacts, particularly right there in Southeast Asia.

How long did you go?

I was gone 21 days, sir, 12 countries that we acted as visitors, so it was no vacation, Mr. Frederick.

You don't know.

You get home, you don't know how to go to bed.

For a week afterwards, I didn't know which night of the day I should go to the bathroom, or eat, or anything like that.

Mr. Frederick, can I say just one word after Pope John's last remarks?

Yesterday I spent about an hour in the Pentagon in Greece, and the thing that, I think this has been overlooked, but last...

in all the discussion, is that there is no fighting in South Vietnam now, to speak of.

There just isn't any.

And Cambodia hasn't been involved in combat at all since Laos.

All the Cambodian fighting has been done by the South Vietnamese.

So, whereas a month ago everyone was concerned about was the Cambodian government going to survive, and what about now, and so forth, there just hasn't been any fighting in Cambodia by the Cambodian forces.

And in South Vietnam,

This is the time of year the enemy would normally make attacks on armed forces and on something.

So in addition to the things that the president said in his press conference, this is a very substantial benefit.

And it's overlooked.

We'll talk about what trails that he disrupted and what the cash issue was.

It's been very good.

Well, I think that's right.

One thing, though, we've got to keep in mind, and that is that they are still maintaining their level of terrorism.

Assassinations and abductions in the cities and villages have not been very much as severe as last year.

So we'll talk about the military title and overlook that and keep that in mind as well.

That'll continue indefinitely, you know, long after we leave.

The point I want to express, and we have not made enough of, and that is that while I was there, the things I was given, 562 village and hamlet chiefs, teachers, nurses, nuns, social workers have been killed, and 6,000 abducted.

You never see this in the American press.

All we see is me lie, or, you know, some of the things that supposedly our boys had done.

But what the other side has done is just unbelievable, and yet we never see about it.

I had two trips in December.

One was your invitation to Nicaragua.

The interesting thing about that is it would have been successful without any effort because the main thing that came over the line was the display of someone from the United States in this country.

He was negotiating at the time with the political opposition for some kind of arrangement to modify the fact that he could no longer under the Constitution run for re-election.

Some of our discussion was on that.

Most of his actual business problems relate to the Central American Common Market.

which then was in a tenuous state and since then had gotten worse and worse because Honduras had withdrawn because of their fight with El Salvador.

I told him that there was no way in which we could take his side against any other country that could support the central company in our common market.

And he encouraged it, gave it technical help, but he had to fight his own battles with his neighboring country, and he understood them pretty well.

The basic...

conclusions I would get out of that is that Nicaragua is probably closer in its thinking and its relationship with the United States than any other country in Central America or Latin America.

Their investment policies are open, their trade policies are about liberal and open as they can be, and Somoza has an interesting approach to his economic development, which is somewhat different from what I saw in most of the other countries.

looking totally at industry and export trade, he's been trying to build a diversified agriculture and has introduced seven or eight very significant crops in substantial quantities for export.

So the idea that if we can develop a diversified agriculture first,

and then induce industry to come into the country, he will keep the masses of people from swarming on the cities, because there will be a good way of making a living on the farms.

And he seems to be making it work, because the cities have not grown, and the per capita income on the farms has gone up very materially.

Beyond that, the only point I want to mention is, I learned yesterday that he's going to be here in June, which is the 25th anniversary of West Point, for his graduation.

And, well, it doesn't work out for Washington.

His 25th.

The second trip I took was to Kenya over the Christmas holidays, with a stop in Spain, scheduled on the way back, which I was forced to cancel for personal reasons.

Bill was in Kenya last year, so he knows the current situation.

I think what I might say would be of interest only because I was there also 23 years ago and several times in between.

I have a feel of the change there.

I was obviously there before Mau Mau and before independence.

And I would say that in one generation it is an incredible thing to see how much a country can change because 23 years ago

Nairobi was a small town and hyenas came in at night to eat the garden.

Ten miles out of town there were wild animals all over.

And driving up the road north from Nairobi was a dirt road, only passable part of the year.

You could see animals on both sides of the road all the way.

Now Nairobi is a big modern city.

A beautiful, beautiful city with Hilton and all the other hotels there.

The peculiar huts have been exchanged for concrete houses of various types.

Buildings have become cities, and the economic development is very impressive.

North of Nairobi today, you go for 100 miles alongside tremendous wheat fields as far as the eye can see.

They have developed a very substantial agriculture, and are in a position where they'll soon be able to export agricultural products.

Five years ago, there was no United States capital in Kenya at all.

Today, there's $80 million, and much more coming in.

I was there to dedicate my mother to a firestone plant where they're putting in $50 million.

Education is... Well, that is owned by Kenyans, too.

As far as I know, they've done a very good job in providing stock options.

They've provided minority ownership where the local people can raise the capital.

Education is almost general now, except in the very remote areas.

I was in the most remote part of the country, around Lake Gruden, for a while.

And up there, it's still primitive, and there's no institutions.

The input mortality among the Turkanas is 70%, and it is just as primitive as it ever was in history.

But the rest of the country is getting education, is getting higher.

The road north of Nairobi is paved now for 150 miles.

The government's commercial policies are very open.

They want a great deal of trade.

We are a good customer of theirs, and they're buying more and more from us.

Their investment policies are very free.

They want capital on almost any terms, and they even give incentives for the capital to come in.

One of the impressions I had is that the caliber of the ministers is extremely high, and they're for it.

They are very high-quality people, and extremely able.

Most of them are Kukuyas.

Compared with the other East African countries, and I visited a lot of them in recent years, they're far ahead of any of the others.

Tanzania, of course, is communist.

Uganda just kicked out the communist government.

Ethiopia professes to believe in the same things that Kenya does, that their administration, their red tape, is so cumbersome that it takes a

two years to get a decision in Ethiopia that you could get in three months in Kenya.

The result is that American business is very slow in going to Ethiopia.

When I was in Ethiopia a year ago at Christmas, they were talking about a plan to set up an investment and trade center in the center of Nairobi as a joint venture between the Chamber of Commerce and the Ministry of Commerce so that foreign businessmen could come in on a one-stop basis

And the government officials would send people to meet with him right there.

A great idea.

But they're still debating it 15 months later, and they haven't been able to agree on where it should be, or who should run it, or how it should go.

There's one incident I'd like to tell about, because it indicates something more about the country, I think, than anything else I could say.

One of the stops I went to overnight to visit an American missionary that has a boy's town was Juryssen.

where they have 160 boys that are orphans of the Somali invasions.

And in the evening the district commissioner had a dinner for me at the Carissa Club.

About 95% of the people were blacks from the government agencies at one time and another.

And there were quite a number because it was the regional center for a very large region.

After the dinner I got into discussion with some of the local government people

These were local administrators, local agricultural people, local irrigation people and so forth.

The caliber of the questions and the world knowledge they had was unbelievable in a place where 20 years ago there was no education.

One of the questions that had interesting overtones that I was asked was, in view of the troubles which the United States is having with Libyan oil, is it going to affect its self-sufficiency in oil?

What are the priorities by which the United States achieves its economic development programs?

I told them they were still debating them here.

What are you doing in the United States to prevent the migration to the city?

Because this is one of our great problems as Kenyans.

How would you rationalize the differences between the parliamentary and the congressional system?

This is from clerks out in the country, which indicates they're not only well-educated, but they have very progressive attitudes and an outward look, and I think some of these fellows of the type that I met are probably going to be future leaders in the government.

As Bill knows, the great uncertainty that people talk about in Kenya is what's going to happen after Kenyatta.

My own judgment, and you may or may not agree, is that the level of the government officials is such, and the predominance of the Kikuyu tribe is so great, that they can surmount Kenya's departure, and still have good effective leadership under their one-party system over there.

Now, the last incident of my trip was with regard to Spain.

I found out that you could still get the old collywobbles in Africa.

I got them on the last day of my trip at Lake Google.

Flew to Nairobi and was so weak there that I had to send a cable to Bob Hill in Spain saying I can't take it.

I had these appointments scheduled for one day in Spain.

Bob sent a very pathetic cable back saying you've got to come no matter how weak you are.

The Spanish are very sensitive because of the trials.

The French minister canceled out.

The British canceled out some official visits.

And if you don't come, they'll think it's deliberate.

So I took a commercial plane to Athens.

The Air Force plane met me there and took me to Madrid.

I stayed in the Air Force hospital overnight.

I met the Minister of Commerce to let him know that I was really sick.

And then flew back to Lauderdale Hospital.

Mr. President, I wanted to say a word about politics.

You'll all be making, a lot of you will be making trips outside the country.

And I think it's very difficult politically to get credit for the various things that the Democrats have been saying, complimentary things about you and your ship.

I noticed Hale-Mogg and his press conference the other day, and he made a few.

We can't do anything to prevent the charge being made, except...

This is what I would like to suggest you to do.

It has to be done suddenly, otherwise you look like Jack Melendi.

But I think so.

The fact is that the president is considered the outstanding leader of the world.

Everybody you talk to will tell you that if you ask them.

And I think when we come back, if we can...

in our discussions with the public.

So we'll get that idea across.

Not that it's our idea, this is what we were told.

It's made quite an impression on us.

That sort of thing.

Because if we can develop it, it's a positive advantage.

If we can get it, now it's very difficult to go out and say it, because that's what my abortion was back when I was 10 weeks old.

I got kidded about that, about the sluggishness of it.

But I think in this case, if, on a return trip, we point that out, that that was vigorous, and it was understood by all of us, the president and the other giants, and Don, and all of us, that it's got to be done in a certain amount of subtlety, but if we can do it between now and the next election, I think it would be a great asset.

I think the tendency is, when you take a trip abroad, everybody gets a fancy view of the United States,

Rabin, the Israeli ambassador, made the strongest pitch for what we're doing in Laos, that I just wish it could have been public.

I got second hand, I wasn't there.

He was selling Arthur Sulzberger, Si Sulzberger, Woodwicker, Max Frankl, on our policy and what it meant to the Middle East.

Now, I would think that maybe that, without quoting Rabin, would be a useful thing for those who are talking...

I think that's a good point.

I do think we have to keep in mind that foreign policy is tough to sell.

An individual is not so tough.

And in this case, it's true.

Because, you know, oh, if six months from now things go bad, at least you can't be saying this down to somebody.

One thought to the President's outstanding world leaders.

It would be a great significance to the question.

Report on food structural packets.

I'd like to go back to George's comments.

I think I'm running sharing because I've been out around the country, particularly in the West.

Here I've gotten pretty bleak because two of my major constituencies, labor unions and minority groups,

I have very good friends here in Washington, but Bob James is great.

I had meetings with Los Angeles Times editorial board, supervisors of all counties in Southern California, and then a group of leading mayors.

When you talk with them,

It's an entirely different thing, and that's the place that we've got to invest our attention out there and get that back in here because these fellows are in the headquarters of the minority movements and headquarters of the union movements.

They've just invested too much attention here in Washington for too many years to make their anything except the old federal system as being the best way to do it.

We've got change going, giving an end right around it.

So much for that.

And the construction thing, I think that we're going to be coming to you in the next day or so with an idea of a subsequent step.

We certainly got their attention the way you get Neil's attention with a 4x4.

They picketed me in Illinois, they picketed me in Delcourt, and there's no question, but we've got them excited now that we can find some way to take advantage of that.

Harvey, I've still got what we want, but moderate weight increases would be a step in the path that everyone takes.

Yeah, it will have to be a voluntary action on their part.

It never would have taken them unless we'd done something like this.

What we have to have in mind is this, that I'm proud of, and I listen to what I love to hear.

Economics.

Six dollars an hour.

We're concerned about the economics.

The economics, particularly in what you might call the marginal areas where the non-union has a chance to compete in these big cities.

Big cities all the time.

One of the real problems that we have is that

an addition of $2 per hour for three years, or $6 per hour on top of the $7 an hour.

I think it was Omaha and Nebraska that just came out with that, asking for a $6 an hour increase over a three-year period.

Yeah, it's a jolly hell of a lot, $13 an hour.

Mr. President, I don't know what they, if I might be concerned, I can roll it out.

That's not a fact that the wages are going from six dollars an hour back to three dollars and a half an hour.

They may talk about that being a constraint, but that's not a fact at all.

I think it's a threat.

It's very likely.

It's just what they have stirred up, what they have stirred up, you know, they put a rumor around, but it doesn't mean a thing as far as the fact is concerned.

Although I think...

The safeguard base that you're planning to build out in is a common laborer.

A common laborer out there will make $35,000 a year.

Now this will be a 16-hour-a-week job because of the construction schedule, but with the overtime and with the hazard pay, $35,000 a year for a common laborer.

Well, the interesting thing to me about the meeting that Jim had with the Instruction Commission is that the employer is just as concerned about the union, as the union, about this action on state to state, and really concerned about competition.

In the case of labor, it's opened them up for some of this non-union competition, and the same thing with employers.

There's a lot of non-union contractors who are going to be bidding on these contracts.

And one of the disturbing things is, as far as I know, Jim, the wage settlements are just as high upon the level higher than they were last year.

Of the 15 wage settlements that have occurred so far this year, they've already been a percent more than last year.

That is 19% in the first year, 16% in the second year.

Last year it was 18%.

And the impact is spreading.

I talked, it was at a meeting where the president of the food fair was present, and he indicated that their clerks had been getting $120 a week.

They offered them a $55 increase over 18 months, which was turned down.

And on the premise that the teachers got more and the building credit got more.

And he said, I don't know that you can come.

It's plain that they're refusing because the other groups are getting one.

They don't know exactly where things are going.

So what we're talking about here in terms of getting some action is important.

And I do think this Davis-Bacon situation has created, interestingly, a greater possibility of action through your group than even the wage price freeze might have done.

A greater climate.

Yeah, a greater climate to get action.

Difficult with the wage price freeze.

There was nothing to follow up with.

You could follow up the wage price freeze with the legislative program and leave it on until the legislative program will pass.

And then deal with the structural problems in the industry.

And they say this is a hell of a courageous thing to take on the David Bacon.

There's no doubt the president would have been more than to take it on.

It was an emotional kind of thing.

We made a careful analysis of everything that's been said in the public press about this, and there hasn't been a thing in the public press negative about this.

It's always there.

What happened to the weight increases, and as you pointed out, it's still going up.

Well, we have a... That's the point, though, that there's...

Mr. President, you're talking about the NCA agreement.

That's all sham.

Those white rules have been in existence since 1958.

I would refer to those in charge as they relate to this next step that she's talking about.

What we've been trying to get them all along is to agree to get management later to come up with their own volunteer.

If you can follow that, this is pretty much the same thing.

I guess if you're licensed now, I've got some hopes.

Well, thank you very much.

We'll see most of you again, I guess.

Nixon, Cabinet officers & Rogers on Revenue sharing and Vietnam War

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 16, 1971

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