Conversation 051-007

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Professor, you haven't been out here in a little bit.

No, sir.

But I still have time.

Unfortunately, I see you without me.

You understand that what I say to you is almost by instinct.

As much as he can attract, this would be the explanation.

He's got to fight it.

And we can put out the stuff over here.

Well, he's against it, but he's not really against it.

But from the standpoint of the American public, he's against it.

Well, I must say, I have the very basic feeling that, first of all, what's wrong with getting defeated?

It's technically for what you believe in.

Looking at it strictly from a political standpoint, leaving aside many other considerations, I suppose.

But if there's one thing we need right now, Sammy,

And a good enemy is communist China.

Talk about political speakers.

And so you go to have a fight.

Suppose you lose it.

What have we lost?

As a practical matter.

Suppose we go out on the road.

We don't lose anyone.

Suppose they kick the Chiang Kai-shek guy.

What's he lost?

How is he going to do it?

What has he really lost?

Yet he retains the friendship of this country, the collective civilization.

I'm not sure that, uh, that I wouldn't take the car if I hadn't, uh, sold Canada, sold the United Kingdom, sold Canada, sold each other.

I mean, they'd be higher than the rest of them.

That's what I think we should keep in mind with some of the other Asian nations.

I think most of them hope that we can keep companies right now.

Well, I'll tell you, I can't sell the idea now that this is a very adroit maneuver on our part to keep companies right now.

Communist China has the opportunity to come in and if they want to, and they're as smart as I think they are, they'll come in and still denounce you and still use the United Nations as a podium to try to kick someone out.

That's what I do.

That's what this position, we Americans are compulsive negotiators.

We've got to try to reach the court and our enemies in the world are going to hate us.

Well, listen, let me say this.

I'm sure you've heard from everybody, but I want to say, Marshall, if you were going to call your people out,

This was really an excellent tapering of the whole scene.

I read it completely last night.

But it really lays it out in a way that we really have to face the facts as they are.

There's an old, frankly I've got some old age in hand, it's Alex or Martin Green.

For whatever it's worth, I'm just looking at it.

How do we sell it?

What happens?

My view is, China has done it.

I think everybody is an expert on the Chinese and nobody knows anything about the Chinese.

The Chinese are curious.

I had a very interesting talk with a fellow.

There's Old Town, Hong Kong, and the Mandarin Motel, which is one of the more pleasant parts of it.

And, uh, St. Scaroly.

And Harold Lee is, of course, like all Chinese, playing all kinds.

I mean, I was having a conversation.

I will do, but not a lot.

I asked him about this, about where in 1967.

So Harold, he just probably couldn't lay it.

It was too strong for him.

And Harold, I said, I said, what do you think about it?

And I said, you know, when you find a British that's up to this, what would you think of our recognizing of this?

He said, you're crazy.

He said, you saw what they were saying.

He said, they say, you recognize us.

He said, when are we going to recognize you?

His point being that their reaction is not going to be one generally, but it's certainly going to play in.

To play it to you, your analogy, John, to play it in terms of the clever thing, well, we've got the option to come in, so we'll go in, but we see the United Nations, their reaction to being in the vanguard now,

people from movies around the world would need to say, by God, we need that.

And so we're not going to go in unless this guy gets out, you see.

That's what we're going to do.

That is one way to look at it, but we can't be sure.

The point that I'm making is that the paper is brilliant and setting forth all of these very interesting options, and now we've got to decide.

I just love it.

I love it.

I mean, as far as news is concerned, it's a damn complicated matter.

Whatever you get across.

I will try to say very briefly, I think a lot of it is true.

The one part is, depending on what you say, I would not throw it to you first.

Well, I think what you say, I think we ought to cover it.

One of us ought to cover it.

In fact, most people are frustrated with that.

They think it costs too much.

In fact, do they want to do it?

I'll let you take those points.

In fact, I think that it costs too much.

It doesn't work.

You can't do anything about it.

It just gets at it.

This just gets at the problem.

You know, the one problem that I thought that we could discuss perhaps, which is a very great political problem, and it has to be the one that poaches the greatest confidence we might imagine.

It's accurate to what you just said.

Sam Farmer is trying to really raise the tone on the ground, and they say now they've got to go to three, but those are the ones that won.

I don't think that's true.

As a matter of fact, I think they go to 30 of those now.

But I would like for you to put your mind, if you would, to how we can qualify them.

In other words, maybe there's a way to put up a farmer window here or something.

I don't know.

Or a clearinghouse in the White House.

Or I don't know.

Or maybe you just say, just remember we decided to do this.

We did it later in the farm.

We said, well, let's have all of our animals done that.

I don't know how significant the department thing is.

It's not very clear.

I always gave it to the business person.

I think what happens in the department of green access is what happens in the department of systems.

That's like the belt.

I don't know.

Did that go all right?

Well, I don't know.

I'm doing that.

That's what that job is.

I think it was a little bit of a reading when he was talking about it.

It was a little bit of a reading.

I don't know if we're reading any times.

Well, on agriculture, my approach to it was going to be, I'm just going to say good luck.

Y'all get the cues of all kinds of things.

You've got food stamps.

You've got service commodities.

You've got everything in the world.

You've got everything.

toward New York and get your corporations involved with your manpower and all of a sudden it really contributes nothing to your welfare.

If you get blamed for it, you have this.

If you don't, if you don't get a low profile here, these cities legislate hard, it's gonna absolutely destroy you.

You're not gonna have any kind of progress that's gonna help you there.

And so my approach is gonna be, they've got to get out of the spotlight and out of the limelight.

They've got to get submerged.

Because they can't, they can't exist.

For very long, they can't be present, to be honest with you.

I know some states, they were ready, they were ready to meet up.

Well, they, you know, of course, you know, you know, you really come down to it.

You can stop and think about it.

I told him, I said, Steve, that was so gross.

Here, two, three people, Anderson.

A person just practicing how it is to be me when he's left.

That man, Margaret, who was a ridiculous young woman who was living in John.

But I'll tell you this, I feel exactly the same.

This country doesn't go forward like that.

I think we're fighting the right battle here.

The public may not be with us yet, but they will be in the end.

Don't you think so?

Yes, sir.

As far as the next 10 weeks go, we've got to do the talking because we're not able to monitor the crisis in the world.

Of course, just like you said.

We've got a negative balance of payments for the first two and a half months of this year of $5 billion.

We've got the Germans coming over here.

They want us to give some guarantees.

We've got the settlers that come in and say we want gold.

And the Dutch and Swiss are talking about the same damn thing.

The Germans, for the first time in 54 years, we've got $15.5 billion in reserves.

We've got $13.5 billion.

Uh, and this is going to be a serious problem for us when we get to the point where we're not even put into the mass.

I think the need for commercial aviation, that's a serious point.

They want to dismantle the army to bring the boys home.

They don't want to support the space program.

The space will be next.

They're next.

They're going to dismantle the lack of doors that have any relation to the military or science.

And they won't support the commercial essentially until you get ahead on this side.

Uh, we're in the hands of the beast.

But don't we just have to fight with Peter?

I'm all for fighting.

I'm happy to fight.

It's all tied in, like I said.

It's all splitters.

Well, that's going to be one of those games.

No, of course not.

Something will happen to the world.

We're going to come out to the park and come out of this place and think, all right, you know, we did a bad job.

You know, these little guys got out of there.

They got out of there and they just got to report down the side.

I think they did an awful lot.

Yes, sir.

Of course, I couldn't say this again for a long time.

So, that's where that picture was taken of you.

That big wall.

Yeah, I've got to stumble over to make the frame.

I don't want to do this for the president.

So, that's the appeal of it.