Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 102 › Conversation 102-005

Cole on Tax Reform Act of 1969 and Black employment

Tuesday, May 30, 1972 · 12:01 AM–8:01 AM ET · Cabinet Room · 14 min

ParticipantsCole, Kenneth R., Jr.; [Unknown person(s)]Conversation102-005 on Tape 102StartTuesday, May 30, 1972 at 12:01 AMEndTuesday, May 30, 1972 at 8:01 AMRecording deviceCabinet RoomSourceNixon Library record for 102-005 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 648452379 ↗

AI Summary

Kenneth R. Cole, Jr. met with unidentified individuals to discuss several administrative issues, including skepticism regarding a proposal for black employment initiatives under the Small Business Administration. The participants also addressed concerns over requests from Charles Colson’s office for data on the Tax Reform Act of 1969, fearing that releasing complex, misunderstood technical details would lead to damaging leaks in the Washington Post. Additionally, the conversation touched upon media relations, the coordination of press plans with John Ehrlichman, and strategies for managing Congressional interactions regarding environmental and policy issues.

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part B, 44:08

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102d.mp3

NARA Description

On May 30, 1972, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr. and unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 12:01 am and 8:01 am. The Cabinet Room taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 102-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 102-5

Date: Unknown between May 30 and June 13, 1972
Time: Unknown between 12:01 am, May 30 and 8:01 am, June 13, 1972
Location: Cabinet Room

Kenneth R. Cole, Jr. met with unknown people

     [Unintelligible]

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 47s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

******************************************************************************

    National economy
         -Memorandum
               -Contents
         -Black employment
               -Robert J. Brown
         -Small Business Administration [SBA]
               -Programs

    Tax Reform Act of 1969
         -Charles W. Colson’s office
         -Information
         -Ed Cullen [sp?]
               -Analysis of vote
         -Colson
               -Note
         -S. Steven Karalekas
         -Congress
         -Votes
         -Technical aspects
         -Washington Post
               -Leaks
         -W. Richard Howard
         -Karalekas
         -Administration wishes
         -Lou [Surname unknown]
Show the rest of the log (52 more lines)
         -Colson

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Privacy]
[Duration: 11s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

******************************************************************************

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 3m 4s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

******************************************************************************

    Media
        -Plans
             -Review by John D. Ehrlichman

    A trip
          -Palace
          -Unknown woman
               -Press

    Media
        -Rome
        -Paris
        -United States Information Agency [USIA]
        -Unknown person
        -William D. Ruckelshaus
        -Russell E. Train
        -Rogers C. B. Morton
        -Unknown person
        -George S. McGovern

           -Ruckelshaus
           -Hubert H. Humphrey
           -Supersonic Transport [SST]
           -Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
           -Environmentalists
           -Ruckelshaus
           -John L. Campbell
           -Egil (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr.

The unknown people left at an unknown time before 8:01 am, June 13, 1972

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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John, I have labored with this memo for weeks.
And I think it's fair to say I don't understand any of it.
I don't know what he's talking about.
Ain't fair, ain't made, ain't...
Nothing do I understand.
If I don't brown and distill...
where AA contracts would be used to improve black and black.
And basically, the SBA didn't think much of it.
It was kind of something that Brown shot out, and Brown then sent a memo to you.
And I sent it to you.
You sent it to me, and I said to Bear, Bear sent this back.
What's it mean?
I think it means that it's not a good idea to do what Brandon wants to do.
Have you talked to Nate about it?
No.
What about having a talk with him about it?
What's the status of that thing?
Well, do you have an outstanding request from Coles and Coves to provide us with some information on the Tax Reform Act of 1968?
69?
Or 69?
Yeah.
Yeah, I must have talked to them.
89 people about that.
89 people about that.
What?
Well, they keep calling me now for how come they can't get the information.
Because I haven't given them a tour.
What they want is, they're still back on this thing about who voted for what, and there is nothing there.
This whole thing arose out of a conversation that I had with Ed Cohen, who said, hey, wouldn't it be great if we could put something together that indicated who voted for what amendments and what processes during deliberations, right?
So I said that it's great to get people working on it.
I mentioned this to you and John, and I think that got back to Colson, and pretty soon I have a memorandum from Colson saying, where is this stuff?
It came out nothing.
Well, how come we can't communicate to them?
I have indicated that to Carolicus on 81 occasions.
Okay, do you have some papers that show that it came out nothing?
I have some papers, they don't show anything.
How do we know it came out nothing?
Because if you go through all of this, that's how it comes out.
Why don't you send them all of that, or copies of all of that?
I have a hesitancy about doing that, because an untrained guy might look down and see that so-and-so voted no on some technical amendment, which really has a reverse effect of what is a very technical thing.
Unless you've got somebody who goes through it with you.
And that's why I haven't sent it to them.
Because the first thing we know, just as I've seen other things happen, it's been leaked to the Washington Post, and we've got our pants down.
If somebody, either you or one of your early guys, takes some time to go through it, I mean, I don't know who it is, or gives Dick Howard a call on Carolina to talk to Trane,
and go through this with them and explain exactly what the situation is, why there is a trap, why nobody thinks it ought to be pursued.
It would be good just to get it shut off, if that's what the situation is, if that's what it goes for.
They're going to wind up doing it themselves.
I mean, that's where they are.
I wish they would, because they wouldn't.
Well, but then they'll really get it wrong.
I mean, I understand what they will think, but then they'll really get it wrong.
I told them the other day, you know, if you guys think you're smart enough to figure it out, why don't you go try to figure it out, then go review it with Lou.
But I said, better yet, let me talk to Lou before you start.
You know, if you can talk with Chuck or...

— 3 min 30 s with no transcribed speech —

For any of those who wondered what happened to the media plans that you did, they are being reviewed by John, and my guess is that they are a subject of John's, one of the subjects for John's conversation this weekend.
This guy's gonna tell us a little bit about his home, where he lives.
I live so hard to see his house.
What was the kind of reaction when you brought him back?
It was a good time.
He had a great driver.
He didn't need a car.
He was standing at the same time.
He was standing at the same time.
He was out on the palace.
The palace and dancing girls.
Great job.
What do you want me to do?
What do you want me to do?
What do you want me to do?
What do you want me to do?
And then we talk directly with the press guys.
Ramlin will be popping out as soon as the pilot bombs.
She's a little brighter than this press guy, and she knows what's going on.
But they have no idea what a press line is.
John, at some point, was the investor, trained, heard from press people, and just chewed ass.
And we'll recall some of the guys as you can get them.
The first person to learn to be involved is ready to recall others.
Well, they're really starting to figure out that we care about the painters back here.
Well, they're doing everything to get us tattooed on this guy's head, and I hope so.
You know, we were getting a great play in Rome, Paris.
Well, they stopped screwing.
They said they would.
They're waiting until the governor makes his drop-by.
They're a little bit like that.
Everybody gets in there.
The ambassador's over here.
Honored to be a Colombian.
I see his way out of the SEC.
He's not there?
He's not.
He's on the job again?
Well, he wasn't there the first three days.
This is going to be primarily a butt-kicking rule.
They'll run around Rumpelstiltskin County.
Everybody that was in the SST rarely has a man with a mantle.
They were a little too soft in the SST.
They're supposed to be in a position to jump around, straight around.
And what about you being in their... Really?
In their SSC, in what?
Well, they're gonna fire on us while I'm still available.
Yeah, but it's a comprehensive question.
In what form does that come up?
That comes up in a lot of committees.
In the resolution.
Yes.
And, you know, it's a real lesson, it's a real lesson for these Congressmen, because all these guys, every day at 8.30 in the morning, the embassy, all these guys, the whole delegation sitting here on the table, across from the President's house, the train, down to the base line, the environment, you know, so they're sitting there talking, and they all agree on a position, and all of a sudden, look at John.
You know, he just kind of looks over his left and says, I don't think that's where the President is, and all these Congressmen are looking around and saying, what's going on, you know?
Okay.
What else?
I've had heart failures since these are pills.
We have two members of the domestic council, 50,000 and up on it.
Wow, we were on that earlier.
We were on that earlier.
Oh, I like them.
They tag me, man.
Of course, it broke the closing arm, didn't it?
That's the kind of a weird thing.
It's almost a third down.
It broke the middle.
It broke the middle.
It broke the middle.
It broke the middle.
It broke the middle.
It broke the middle.
It broke the middle.
It broke the middle.

Also recorded on May 30, 1972

  • 102-001 12:01 AM · 37 min — Alexander M. Haig, Jr., Robert J. McCloskey, Charles N. Brower, Reggie Thompson, Joseph Hancock, Ralph T. Smith, William L. Gifford, Charles D. Ablard, Thomas C. Korologos, Fred F. Fielding, Dr. James R. Schlesinger, and unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 12:01 am and 8:01 am.
  • 102-002 12:01 AM · 3 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 12:01 am and 8:01 am.
  • 102-003 12:01 AM · 2 min — United States Secret Service agents met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 12:01 am and 8:01 am.
  • 102-004 12:01 AM · 8 min — unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 12:01 am and 8:01 am.
  • 102-007 12:01 AM · 15 min — unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 12:01 am and 8:01 am.

Cite this conversation

Conversation 102-005, May 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 648452379). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/102-005 (accessed November 2, 2026).