On October 26, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 1:41 pm to 1:47 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 013-012 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Yeah.
Secretary Rogers.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, Mr. President.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, Mr. President.
We've got a bad connection here.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, hello, Mr. President.
Bill, how did you get along?
I thought it went pretty well.
I've been tied up.
I didn't get it.
Ron Ziegler thought it went well.
I haven't been able to talk to him yet.
Uh-huh.
It, uh...
It really is not too difficult.
The problem we've got is basically this, and I've told our people here, that to vent their spleen on the UN and not on us, because it's... Reagan called me last night, and I didn't talk to him until this morning, but he, of course, is outraged and has a feeling.
And I found that what outraged him, and I think this is, I find this is typical of a lot of people,
They saw it on television, and he said these...
And apparently it was a pretty grotesque picture.
Apparently it was a terrible scene.
A scene, and they cheered, and I didn't see it, you see, did you?
No, I didn't.
I was sitting and just read the reports, but Reagan said, he practically got sick at his stomach, and that's why he called.
And he said it was a terrible scene, and that sort of thing will have an emotional effect on people.
Here, these...
to be kicking the United States in the teeth.
He says it was a terrible thing, they thought.
Did you get the same feeling or not?
Yes, I did.
I didn't, of course, I didn't see it, but I've heard that there was really pretty revolting, repulsive damn scene.
I tried to hit it as carefully as I could.
I said I thought this was going to lose support of American people and American people are going to be disillusioned.
I talked about the money.
I said that they've got to face up to the fact they're bankrupt and
And I said, Senator Mansfield and Senator Scott are both introduced to bills now saying that they're going to cut back the appropriations, and the U.N. has got to face up to reality.
So you never know how it's going to come out, though.
What they'll try to do now is make it appear that it was a defeat for us.
And I said that, you know, it's not a defeat.
We fought for principle, and we think that we were right.
And we understand that sometimes we win, sometimes we lose.
Well, of course, this vote has been getting closer every year.
Yes, I pointed that out.
What was it last year?
Wasn't it pretty close?
Well, it was pretty close last year.
But see what's happened in the meantime is that the People's Republic has established diplomatic relations with a lot of these countries.
Sure, including Italy.
Italy and Canada and Belgium and the rest of them.
And, well, on, of course, the feed side, but...
I can't help but believe that we have make or are making the case or have made the case that we've worked hard on the damn thing.
What do you think?
Oh, yes.
I don't think there's any doubt about that.
You got much doubt on that point?
No, no.
There was only one question about that, and everybody knows that we worked like hell on it.
I wonder if I should call Reagan.
Well, here's what his proposal is, and maybe you might call him, and...
His proposal, basically, he says that he feels so strongly, he says, I'm urging, and of course this is ridiculous, but I want you to have this background because it might be helpful if you could call it.
He says, I feel, he says, that you ought to call Bush back and instruct him to go back to the United Nations and just say that, well, we will continue to attend the United Nations, but we will no longer
participate in the votes.
We can't do this.
Well, you know what I mean.
And he says this, he says the American people would just be for this.
Well, of course, that in effect, Bill, is like getting out of the U.N. As you know, he's pretty far on the Birch kick and the rest.
What do you think?
Would it be any good to call him or not?
Well, I thought it might be a good idea to say that we feel the same way that he does.
We're going to do what we can to cut down there, you know, cut them down to size.
And I'll tell you what you might do is say you don't know how the press will cover there, but
you might read that portion of your statement.
I wouldn't read the part of welcoming the Chinese.
I took that word out.
Good.
Well, good.
Just say we supported it or that.
But I wouldn't even say that.
I'd say, look, this is what we said.
I regret this.
We think it was this.
And then say, look, Governor, take it.
We don't mind you taking it out on the U.N., but remember...
And then you might, I think you might disclose to him that I made some calls.
Would you, and tell him to keep it in confidence because we don't want to embarrass the countries that I called, that I didn't call.
But why don't you tell him that?
This is unprecedented.
You sent a lot of personal messages to the calls.
Well, Laos, for Christ's sakes.
Well, you sent, you know, but you sent a lot to all these other...
The oral messages.
Oh, yeah.
I think you ought to say that we, that everything was done and that it's just an unprecedented effort and then say that what really happened here, I think you might explain is that before we ever announced the Chinese trip, which is very important, before we ever announced Italy was gone,
Canada was gone, you know.
That's right.
And Belgium was gone.
Iran.
Iran.
Turkey.
Turkey.
All right, I'll do that.
Do you mind calling him?
Not at all.
Good.
All right.
Thank you.
Do your best.
But explain that you feel that I talked, tell him that I, that after his talk with me that I,
uh as a matter of fact i did talk to you right after i talked to him that i said i talked to you and you say now governor we reflected this in your statement that you made the statement for the administration because you had carried this fight that bush did a terrific job and the rest that he mentioned this to you and that uh you you feel that under the certain extent oh the other thing if you would mention which isn't a bad idea say that there's one little there's one special problem we have right now we have a possibility of war in india and pakistan and we may have to use the u.n
you know, to restrain that damn war.
And that this, therefore, we're really in a box in the U.N.
I'd hit that very hard.
That's a good idea.
Very hard.
Tell him what he says.
That's something else again, but remember, hit the U.N. and don't hit the president.
Okay.
Okay?
Thank you.
Thank you.