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Conversation 131-008

TapeTape 131StartWednesday, May 17, 1972 at 2:36 PMEndWednesday, May 17, 1972 at 2:40 PMTape start time00:14:35Tape end time00:19:02ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Tkach, Walter R.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table
AudioNARA Description

On May 17, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Walter R. Tkach talked on the telephone at Camp David from 2:36 pm to 2:40 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 131-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 131-8

Date: May 17, 1972
Time: 2:36 pm - 2:40 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Dr. Walter R. Tkach.

[See also Conversation No. 189-19]

     Manolo Sanchez
         -Schedule
         -Health

     George C. Wallace

     Manolo Sanchez
         -Schedule
              -Florida
              -Fina Sanchez
              -Benefits

     Wallace
          -Health
          -Walter Reed Hospital
               -Move
                     -Date
                     -Effect on President's visit
                     -Announcement
          -Condition
          -Prognosis
               -Paralysis
          -Tkach's visit
               -Message from President
               -Dr. William M. Lukash
               -Calls from President
                     -Time
               -Message from President
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yes, Mr. President.
When is Manolo getting back, do you know?
Probably about Wednesday or Thursday.
It's going to take a little longer because apparently he did something that, he bumped it or something and it aggravated it.
And they had to remove some blood out of the joint.
As of today, I don't know exactly, but it was supposed to be Wednesday or Thursday.
I'll call out to you, Mr. President, find out for you.
You want an update on the governor?
Yeah, it's on Manila, Walter.
I'm going to have him go to Florida.
Don't tell anybody about it, Joe, anybody around, the family or anybody else, because I'm just going to... Saturday morning, I've got a courier plane I have to send down anyway, and I'm going to have him and Fina go with the dogs and stay there ten or two weeks, which will be good, won't it?
Very good, sir.
He can sit down there.
He'll get to see one or two.
Right.
Good.
All right, number two, the governor is running a temperature of 102, and they don't know where it's coming from.
That is because he has multiple wounds, and they don't know where it is.
They do want to move him to Walter Reed.
They were going to move him probably tomorrow or Friday.
Now they don't know.
By the way, I'm going to go out there in a few minutes.
Oh, they're not moving him today then?
No, not today.
See, the problem is I wanted to drop by and see him, but I don't want to see him there.
Oh.
And I wouldn't do it until Friday, but you don't think he'd be at Walter Reed by Friday?
No.
Well, let me find out more appropriately by visiting.
The slightest idea, nobody on our staff has the slightest idea I'm going to do this.
Right, sir.
It'll be a drop because I don't want to build up and not do it.
Right, sir.
You mean they don't think they can move him?
No, because apparently he's building up.
It might be an abscess, but they don't know where because he's had many wounds, you know, injuries there.
And the bullet, by the way, is apparently moving up and down now.
This is an untoward reaction.
And they can't go in to get it because this is, again, major surgery, and they can't subject him to major surgery again because the approach is from the back, you know.
So this is another hell of a thing that's happening to him.
Usually they do not remove the bullet because it's done its damage, and there's not going to be any recovery if they removed it.
However, if the bullet does move, then this poses another problem.
They may have to go in.
But when, I don't know.
The prognosis on the paralysis is still grim?
Still bad, still bad.
That's too bad.
Yeah, it is too bad.
Why is it that the prognosis is bad?
You mean if they could get the bullet out, would that change it?
No, that would not change it.
You see, your initial shock is swelling.
Anytime you hit tissue, you're going to get swelling.
So he has swelling, and that's inside the spinal canal.
Now, when that subsides, then that pressure is off, so you'll get some return of function.
Up until that point, probably a matter of several weeks, they won't know how much function he's going to get back.
Now, they actually never take the bullet out unless there's some very good reason like movement.
Because the damage is done, taking it out will not improve it.
And the nerves and the spinal and the central nervous system never regenerate once they've been injured.
It's one of those oddities because it does not have a sheath on like the nerves in the periphery.
It does not regenerate, so it doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether you leave it in or take it out.
And rather than subject a patient to this trauma, which is rather large, and it's pretty significant, when you go into the back of your head to chip away a lot of bone, they just leave it in and nothing happens anyhow afterwards.
But with the movement, now this may...
chain altered, they don't know how many fibers have been injured or how many have been just compressed by the swelling inside the spinal canal.
Now, when I go out, can I say that, well, the President wishes to send you his best wishes?
I don't even know if I could...
Yes, well, I think Luke Kirshner, but you can just say I called again.
I called at 2.30, I called twice a day, and that I send my best.
He already...
indicated he didn't want to take toll, but I'll just say that I sent my best wishes that I'm at Camp David, okay?
Right, sir.
Fine.
I thank you, Mr. President.
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