Conversation 131-025

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.

Good morning, Mr. President.

All right.

Well, I was just taking a look at the morning papers, and I probably

I couldn't believe my eyes where the Washington Post has some sort of a headline that says, Nixon, big winner in Maryland.

That's the poll that I mentioned to you last night that they commissioned with Hart, and that I had the results of yesterday when I said...

But I thought it was Michigan you were referring to.

No, the poll that I had... Hart, I guess, some way used when you said Hart, I had Michigan in mind.

That's right.

But it's really kind of a similar thing in Michigan, according to the Yankelovich report.

and also the report that DMI did in Michigan, both states, the conclusion is pretty clear that most of those are Nixon voters.

At this point.

I must have killed Haynes Johnson to write that piece in the Post this morning, because he's a dedicated left-winger.

But Jesus, what he said really there is that four out of five of those who voted for Wallace are going to vote for Nixon in November.

And I don't know whether, I couldn't figure out from that or from their data whether it meant, whether...

They were trying to do us in with their readership by saying Wallace people are Nixon people, Nixon, Wallace is a racist, ergo Nixon is a racist.

That's really, you see, they're too subtle, though.

They're much too subtle because people reading it, also, well, of course, they make the point in there that for the first time, sophisticated suburbanites are voting for Wallace and not just rural country folk...

You know, I was just talking with John Mitchell a little while ago.

This is the kind of thing we've got to really get into our next round of polling in great depth.

That is, what is the real... Well, particularly in view of the fact that, you know, you do have some people around.

I mean, Don Rumsfeld and, to a certain extent, Bob Finch and...

Certainly Ed Harper and the domestic counsel staff who've said that bussing's not an issue.

I just sent a note to Haldeman last night, which he may want to show you on the trip if you get a few free minutes at some point for domestic politics, saying I hope this puts to rest finally the last vestiges of those guys who say this issue doesn't cut.

God, this is a cut.

In the states in which it matters, it is critical.

Well, it could be the kind of an issue.

And also, we're on the right side of it.

We just want to get more right out of it.

Well, all we need to do, really, I think, is make our position a little clearer than it is.

Now, what the conferees did, that's a classic story.

I just mentioned it to you last night.

But, you know, they worked all night until dawn, the night before last, in order to turn out some sort of a busing moratorium.

I'm sure that they

We're watching those results come in from Michigan and the society finally get off their ass and give us a moratorium.

We're not particularly happy with it because we don't think it's as strong as it ought to be.

And it may be that when you get back, we should crank up a little something whereby you can come out and say, I want this issue cleanly understood that we're not only for freezing things in place, but

for turning it back where they've gone too far.

Turning it back where they've gone too far.

That's right.

That's the issue.

That's right.

I'm against busing.

I'm against forced housing.

That's right.

That's the issue that we've got to get across clearly, and I will have some work done on that while you're away so that maybe you can, when you get back, really hit that very hard.

My own feeling, Mr. President, coming on this very hard right at the moment, that this issue properly exploited in the proper areas

absolutely contrived election you take the whole state of illinois if you just take one area where where busing is as critical as it is and and of course we one big thing is to keep keep wallace off that ballot i just hope the hell he i don't wish him any ill but i i hope he i hope he isn't going to be up and around this year because those are our votes i'm convinced of it

Yeah, I don't know.

I suppose this wheelchair thing, Chuck, will obsess them all and they'll want to do it.

Maybe.

He's a damn fool to do it.

I mean, all he's going to do is to, frankly, help his enemies.

Well, that's right.

Mitchell and I are going to give a little thought to how we might... Incidentally, I'm sure, when I say I'm sure, without knowing anything, but there are press reports indicating paralysis are correct.

Oh, I'm sure of it.

What I mean is it's grim.

I think it is.

And when they said this morning four to six weeks, that just doesn't jive with Lukash.

He says three to six months before he's going to be able to do a damn thing.

But I don't know.

Maybe you've got more current from Lukash.

That's what I heard from him the last time I talked to him.

No, it is.

At least three months.

At least three.

Well, then he isn't going to go.

Of course, the other thing, Mr. President, is that in order to get votes, he has to campaign.

He doesn't get them.

Without campaigning.

He's got to whip up those crowds.

Well, I don't know.

He's always got 12% on the polls before he ever started campaigning, Chuck.

Yeah, that's true.

So?

That's true.

That's what it is.

It just means that we've got to do our best.

That's all of it.

Well, be that as it may, I must say that it's got to have shaken the Democrats a little.

What are they saying, Chuck?

Oh, well, the word, I'm going to be meeting at noon today with all of the Teamster fellows.

They're political people from all over the country.

But Fitzsimmons told me last night, they're a pretty good barometer.

They keep a close feel on the political post.

The reaction yesterday all across the country in the Democratic ranks is that

Humphrey just had his Waterloo in Michigan.

I saw one of the press things indicated there.

Yeah, they'll have to start playing.

How are the television jackasses playing?

The same way?

The same way.

Yes, the stuff last night was O.A.B.C.

Donaldson was on saying that terrible black guy for Humphrey.

He had the whole damn state party behind him.

He had the entire labor establishment except Woodcock personally, but he had the UAW locals all working for him.

And he got 17% of the vote, or whatever, 17, I guess, which is a...

It's a general feeling, coming back to less important things for them but more important for us.

It's a general feeling that

that Mike called her, sending the doctor out, offering Walter Reed, going across the street and so forth, and, of course, checking daily.

Is that about the right level with him, don't you think?

Yes, sir, I do, Mr. President.

I wouldn't do more.

You might consider...

Going out to see him?

No, I wouldn't do that tomorrow, not before this trip.

Maybe when you come back.

Harry Dent's strongly pushing it.

Is he for you to go see him?

Mm-hmm.

I was thinking of you.

I wasn't going to go out.

I was just going to stop the helicopter.

I understand.

And I'm not even brief as anybody.

I've considered stopping the helicopter on the way and just dropping in and wishing you well before I leave.

Figuring you might dive on there.

Friday morning?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

Friday.

I'm coming down from Camp David.

Oh, I see.

I see.

I follow.

Well, that's a possibility.

But with no press, see?

Well, the press will be there, but I wouldn't build it up at all.

That's not a bet.

See, fly from Camp David, get on the helicopter, and just drop down in the parking lot and drive over and see him.

Just...

That would make some sense.

I think if you... Everything should be surprised.

Nothing should be contrived.

Totally surprised.

But do you think up to this point we've done it right?

Up to this point, you've done it exactly right.

And you haven't...

I think that Humphrey wrecked much too fast.

I think if you would have...

If you were to do it as a surprise drop-in on the way down from Camp David in the morning, that would make some sense, yes.

I don't want to appear to be just sucking around.

No, what I was going to propose to you was that you call him because he's now up and around and conscious.

That might be the second thing, is to just call and tell him.

That's the alternative, would be to call him personally.

Maybe the best thing to do.

Well, you could say that I'd like very much to get out and see you, and I will.

I could just say that the doctors figured it would be better not to.

Yeah, and a call is good, Mr. President, and would be publicized that you called him and expressed your concern for him.

You talked to Mrs. Wallace the night of the incident, and that may be just as good as a drop-in.

We'll talk the thing over, yeah.

Look a little less spectacular, perhaps, but I would think that one or the other, but maybe the call is...

call in some ways is better.

Because right now you're immersed in getting ready for the Soviet Union.

These are major items that you've got on your mind.

Well, it wouldn't take any time.

I mean, it would just be dropping in and then going on in.

But anyway, we'll see.

It's a good thought to make some gesture before you leave.

But up until now, I think you're absolutely correctly pastured.

I think it would have been a

horrible mistake to go out there.

Oh, no, that's right.

And also, I'm glad that I didn't stay battened down in the White House.

I mean, you know, that's...

That was the right thing to do.

I don't care what people fear.

Well, the only negative you got was Goldwater, who said... Goldwater, he's always said that.

Yeah, he said the president shouldn't get out in the crowds, and he's got to think of the country.

That's all right.

A lot of people think, by golly, right.

He's a good thing he did.

Yeah, your closest supporters are the ones who get the most sensitive about that.

Well, what the hell, then they'll get Agnew, and he's closer to them than I am, so what the hell.

But you did it just right.

And it calmed the country.

And Humphrey praised you for it.

I was amazed at that.

Did he?

Yes.

He said, this is what public figures have to do.

And they have to go out to the people.

And that's part of the process, when asked about your going out.

No, that was just the right tone.

And God, that got a hell of a play on the three networks.

Isn't that surprising?

Well, it was great footage.

It was marvelous footage, because that crowd was very enthusiastic and very

It was a good scene for people to see.

Incidentally, haven't some of your people been surprised to find about the other shootings we've had in our time?

Yes.

We've done the research on that.

It's really quite something.

Yes, it is.

It really is.

The line that Kilpatrick is taking is that this is the price of a free society.

We don't have a closed society.

We have freedom, and that means that political leaders...

Particularly those who, for any number of reasons, may be... Well, particularly there are nuts running around.

When we have somebody...

This fellow would have been locked up in another country as being a moron.

That's right.

Now, we say let nuts run around.

When you let nuts run around.

Also, it's the price of permissiveness.

Oswald would have been in a jail in another country.

I think a little of that.

So would this fellow.

Sure, he'd been out threatening people before.

I was delighted to see that the FBI found some of the government literature in his car.

They did?

Yes, sir.

And that was in this morning's press accounts.

In fact, I think the Post article about the fellow mentioned it.

I know the Times.

Well, I'm not sure about the Times, but the Wires had it quite well.

Among the stuff they found in his car were Wallace posters, but they also found some McGovern literature, which I think is delightful.

You know, for your information, it will probably be publicized, but I just spent an hour and a half at the Brennan.

here he's going back this afternoon and everything's on excellent excellent oh that's kind of let those bastards revel on that a little bit yeah i don't suppose you read the post editorials i never will but i read the lead one this morning where they said well we have to admit that thus far all the consequences that we said would happen haven't uh

They caveated it by saying, thus far.

Thus far, but they might later, yeah.

Well, thus far.

Hopefully, hopefully.

Exactly.

It was written in the tone of, well, it hasn't happened yet, but we kind of hope that it's all going to fall apart.

But they did admit it, at least to a degree.

We're going to shove this down their throats this weekend.

That's right.

I'm going to have a ball with this one while you're here.

Particularly, didn't you find that interesting, though, their World War III confrontation, risk of peace, the whole Nixon generation of peace?

The statements are incredible.

Right.

Statements are incredible.

Risking nuclear holocaust.

We've got a whole compilation out, and Bob is going to have them on the plane so that he can stick it in occasionally to the reporters who are traveling.

We'll be shoving it into them back here once you're underway and make them squeal a little bit.

It's just the kind of thing they hate most, is to have their own predictions shoved back down their throats.

Good.

I was pleased to notice this morning that Carl Albert has split with the Doves in the house again and now said that he won't support anything without a ceasefire.

The prognosis on this, that's marvelous, to Boggs and Albert together.

So there's a little hardening up going on in the house.

I think I ought to call Carl and thank him for that.

Well, you'll see him tomorrow, and I think maybe when you see him at 4 o'clock, you ought to say that you... Well, I could even call him and say I appreciate what he said.

Yeah, you could.

About the ceasefire, that that strengthens our hand as we go to the summit.

All right, I think I'll do that.

That's not a bad thought at all.

Because I talked to both Griffin and Bird yesterday, so I might as well give Carl a call.

Well, he would...

I'm sure he would appreciate that.

Let me check exactly what he said.

I'm sure I have it.

Yeah.

Well, I've got the thrust of it correct, that he was...

But he did come out for a ceasefire.

Yes, he said that...

I don't have it right here.

What he said, Albert and Boggs split with the Democratic majority on foreign affairs, saying that they preferred the Byrd resolution and would support a ceasefire, which is, you know, that the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the Doves, had come out with something very much like Fulbright had in the Senate, and Albert and Boggs both said that they...

wanted the Byrd resolution added to whatever is done in the House.

See, what the Byrd resolution does, frankly, is to kill the resolution altogether, because the extreme Doves will not support it with the Byrd resolution.

They're in an incredibly bad political position.

I've talked this morning to the two campaign committees and said, if your candidates out there in the field ought to just zing,

any incumbent Democrat for voting against the ceasefire.

What does he want to do?

Continue the war?

Continue the killing?

Well, the point is, it's just, on the one hand, they say peace for the United States, and we're saying peace for Indochina.

That's right.

Why not?

That's right.

Stop the killing?

That's right.

They're in a very tough position.

I think our fellows, we don't see the impact of this stuff back here, but it hits at home.

You know, I got all of the

It hits out in many areas when we do something like this.

I got all of Joe Vassidi's press clippings today from all over the country over the last 10 days.

God, they're fantastic.

He's calling the Democrats traitors, and they're playing into the hands of the communists.

And he'll maybe be in Wichita one night and in Boise the next night.

getting a hell of a bang out of it so that while we don't always see the impact here in Washington, getting this done out across the country, it erodes them.

And personally, I think that's the reason they're being quiet.

I also think it's the reason that guys like Albert and Boggs smell the political winds and decide to harden up a bit.

And it's going on around the country, Mr. President.

Both houses of South Carolina are

legislature passed resolutions supporting your vietnam policies yesterday and we are now getting some of this this effort is going on we're getting some of the city councils and local officials who are issuing statements and it's the momentum has held up very well i think you don't see it as much in the national press as as as it's reflected in all the little things that have

Mm-hmm.

That's good.

And the anti-war people are not really making much impact.

They're going to try to make their big push Saturday and Sunday here, but the reports are that they're not generating much enthusiasm.

Pete Brennan's got a thing going in New York that's just great with the Teamsters.

They're taking around every construction site.

They're putting up these great big posters, which they had printed several thousand of them, which say, support the president to end the war.

That's all it says.

Right.

And this is good.

We have some of this going with us.

TV last night gave us some very good footage from Vietnam, I must say.

Really?

Yeah, I'm surprised.

I don't quite understand what the networks are, what their game is.

Right now, though, it's pretty hard not to have good, because you may have some bad tomorrow, because those bastards are going to have a high point tomorrow, you know, again, because of Ho Chi Minh's birthday.

But it's all right, too.

Jesus, last night they had coverage, and I had some of it rerun this morning.

They had the carrier pilots who were coming back, and they were very upbeat, and they had great morale, and they said, well, we're all behind what the president is doing, and this finally is going to get our POWs back, and this is what we wanted to do, and we're really hitting them where it hurts, and it's

working and high morale.

And U.S. pilots, one after another, they were interviewing saying, we're really hurting them psychologically and we're hurting them militarily.

And we're only hitting supply areas.

And it was very, very upbeat.

And then they had some footage of the Arvin airborne moving last night.

And that was damn good, excellent footage.

They look like good troops.

They really do.

They look like damn good troops.

CBS said that they were the crack troops, and they were.

They looked damn good.

So I really think the public watching this, Mr. President, and watching what you have done, this is what the politicians are reflecting.

They're just not about to.

We couldn't find anybody yesterday that we could...

Right now, right now, the main thing is keep the heat on them.

I mean, I'm speaking out what we're going to do.

We're going to continue to bomb those bastards every day.

I'm in Moscow.

Every day.

I think what's coming through is that there's beginning to be a feeling that you're really putting the squeeze on them.

There were some columns yesterday that made the point that Hanoi is really beginning to feel the pressure and that they're really squeezed hard.

And I think that's what the American people want.

Senliger tells me that he's still getting, hell, he's getting over 40% of the people saying, pour in whatever is necessary.

Just go all out and do it.

And that is the mood.

For one time, I think we kind of overran the critics, and they didn't get a chance to build.

And I think now the politicians are saying that the public reaction around the country is with you.

That gives you

great deal of freedom to keep the heat on the bastards over there.

Harris thinks the same thing, doesn't he?

Yes, Harris is, he's very upbeat.

Of course, he's just thrilled that you pulled off, he regards it as the, what was the word he used, the masterstroke, but a word like counterpoint that was, you know, that you really, you took the hard line last week and now all of the things that the

your foreign policy has been aiming for in terms of the soviets is going to come to pass and probably wouldn't have otherwise just it's helped if it has i think though i'd love to get to the kind of stuff cardinal crew was talking about out into the press you know maybe get some people interviewing him because it's a fine analysis you know

We don't want to do that until after the Soviet summit, because we don't want to have them feel that they back down.

We're going to let them, because we've got to say, look, we're doing it for our mutual interests.

We're not going to let one small country poison the relations between two large countries.

That's the line I've taken with the Soviet.

I just take it cold turkey, and they understand that.

That's a damn good line.

But I think when you get back, Mr. President, we

This is when we should really, really, really, really build the image of the enormous changes that you've brought about in the world in these three and a half years, opening the dialogue with China, the new era with the Soviets, the major accomplishments that you've made, the ending of American involvement in Vietnam and the success to date of keeping the South Vietnamese free.

It's a hell of a

hell of a powerful theme harris of course feels that we should run on two issues he said you should run on on the tremendous leadership in the world that the president the enormous accomplishments of changing the whole nature of the world really in in the you know in probably the most we're a leader we're a leader the most dramatic changes

ever made in a three and a half year period by any president ever and the most dramatic made since we're aware too right and that's that's a that's the most important line and then he thinks we should take issues like busing and just cut hell out of them in key areas and you take those you know those those two together and you've really you've really got something that motivates motivates voters and so we when you get back we'll uh right we'll make a major effort on that

So I think this is going to build for us.

Okay, fine.

Thank you.