Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 131 › Conversation 131-027
Nixon phone call with Haldeman on George C. Wallace and Soviet Summit
Thursday, May 18, 1972 · 10:58 AM–11:08 AM ET · Camp David Study Table · 10 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman coordinated the logistics for a clandestine visit to George Wallace, who was recovering at Holy Cross Hospital, to discuss Wallace's potential political alignment with the administration. The two also reviewed scheduling for upcoming meetings with Soviet officials and congressional leaders regarding the approaching Moscow summit. Additionally, they deliberated on the optics of gift exchanges between heads of state, specifically deciding to frame the reciprocal gifting of a Cadillac and a hydrofoil as a formal government exchange to mitigate public relations concerns.
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Yeah.
Yes, sir.
With regard to the Wallace thing, I wonder if probably the better thing to do is still just to make a telephone call rather than go by there.
Have you had any more thoughts about it?
Well, I did.
I talked to...
Conley about it.
Oh, good.
We were covering a lot of things, and I didn't say you would raise the question.
That point had come up, and what did he think?
And he thinks on balance it's a pretty good idea, that it would be a good signal and a logical thing to do.
He follows his whole Wallace analysis out that he doesn't
he is convinced that what's going to happen is that wallace is going to go through the democratic convention and say he can't take the democratic platform and he can't swallow mcgovern and therefore he's going to support richard nixon's reelection really that's what he thinks and he thinks i can't believe that well he says if he's smart that's what he'll do and he is smart and uh he says he'll want to claim that he helped to make a president he'll think you're going to win anyway
He'll want to get credit for it.
And he says he can't go on the Democratic ticket.
Oh, hell no.
Obviously he can't go on with McGovern, and he can't even go on with Hubert.
And Hubert can't put him on anyway because Wallace is stronger than Hubert.
That's right.
And also, well, there are other reasons.
Hubert loses his own.
He split his party.
And he says he can't go to the third party thing because it diminishes everything he's gained.
that he's come...
It looked like he was a spoiler only.
That's right.
And he did that last time and it cut him down.
He's better off to play it the other way.
I mean, this is his reasoning.
Well, then maybe we'll have to try it.
He will not be at Walter Reed.
No, that's right.
He'll be at Holy Cross.
Have you checked it out yet to see...
He's in reasonably good shape.
They have...
They have landed helicopters there in a grass area right by the hospital.
So that could be done.
We might not be able to land your big one, but we could land a Huey.
And that wouldn't be bad.
Sure, I'd take that down there.
On that thing.
Now, Walter Reed's only 10 minutes away.
You could land there and drive over if you wanted to do that.
Or you could fly in here and drive out.
It's 20 minutes driving time.
Well, the more you cut down the driving time, the better.
And also, if you land at Walter Reed, you cut down our own White House press.
See what I mean?
Yeah.
I mean, I don't like to go to the White House and then have a caravan of 35 press cars.
Right, I agree.
I think that's right.
I think the best thing to do, frankly, is rather than landing at the hospital, is to land right at Walter Reed.
Well, there's another advantage to that, which is then you could drive over to the hospital and drive back to Walter Reed to get your helicopter, and you could see that Secret Service agent for a minute while you're there.
He's at Walter Reed.
Yeah.
Okay, I could do that.
Fine, let's sort of plan that tentatively.
All right.
Don't tell anybody, but plan it.
Right.
Okay.
Oh, we had a good talk with DeBrennan this morning.
Good.
Everything's all in salvo at the moment.
Henry's wrestling with him again now.
I don't know if I'll ever get through them, but we'll see.
I can imagine.
Just for my own planning, the situation on Friday afternoon is at the present time four o'clock for the leaders or later?
Yeah, four o'clock.
And five o'clock for the press, or are we going to do that?
But that's definitely on, isn't it?
Yep.
I think it's all right.
Maybe you think we should bother with those damn pictures or not?
I don't think you need to, but I think that's really what you feel better about tonight.
Well, I just don't think I need to shake their hands.
I don't either.
I think if you... Let's just do it.
I'll just go in, say a word to them, and the only problem is the sort of mingling a bit, but... Well, I can do that.
I can do that.
It's all right.
I can talk around a little bit.
Just work your way out slowly.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Right.
Avoid all the other questions.
All right.
That's what we'll plan.
Now, there may be, I suppose, something that Ehrlichman and so forth have to look at the last-minute domestic things while I'm here.
I don't want to spend much time on them.
I just can't get into it right now.
Right.
But he'll understand that, and he'll bring up whatever he has to bring up.
Well, I can imagine that the details of this thing must be enormous, you know, as usual.
No, it's in good shape.
Everybody's working on it.
It is.
It's a complex trip because of all the countries plus the Soviet thing, but it's all sorting out very well.
We're not hauling over the silverware and the rest this time, right?
Nope.
That's good.
Just right.
We are, I suppose, hauling in some food, I suppose.
Yes.
That's perfectly all right, too.
We're doing, on all of that, the minimum of what we need to do in order to make it work right.
Are we trying to get any sort of mentos for the guests or any of that sort of thing?
No.
I don't think we bother.
I don't think we should.
I didn't.
It wasn't particularly necessary in China.
Well, they'll have the invitation and they'll have the menu.
That's enough.
And those are nice souvenirs for people.
That's right, that's right.
You've worked out the Cadillac?
We're working it out, yeah.
That's a problem, but we're doing it.
Problem in what?
Getting the money?
Well, yeah, I think it's a problem in just the PR on it.
Well, I agree.
Cadillac.
I agree.
But I don't think there's anything we can do about it.
Well, I agree, but I think it's soluble provided it's the exchange of the two things.
Yep.
In other words, that's the way we put it.
We kind of make it a government exchange rather than a personal exchange.
Absolutely.
We present that to the Soviet government, and they present a hydrofoil to the American government.
Absolutely.
That's what I mean.
Not a gift to the man.
We want to present this to the Soviet government, and they're presenting a hydrofoil to the American government.
That's the way I'd handle it.
I think that can be soluble if somebody would just get on it.
Don't say that we're giving a Cadillac to Brezhnev.
Right.
That isn't the way it's done.
Or a hydrofoil to me.
Right.
And the hydrofoil is being presented to the American government.
Well, for the president's use, you've got to tie that in, and to them, for the chairman's use.
Yeah, whoever is chairman, whoever is president.
Yeah.
And also, get in the fact that the French...
I've given him a car.
Yeah.
And that was what they wanted.
They gave the background to the likes of Scully and that.
Right, right.
And also you might get the relative cost.
I'm sure the hydrofoil is more expensive than the Cadillac.
Oh, I'm sure it's...
Substantially more.
Because, I mean, those things run $50,000 to $60,000, I think.
I don't know what size it is and all that, but I can't imagine— Any size.
You can't get a— It has to be more than a car.
You can't even get a speedboat for less than $4,000 or $5,000.
That's right.
So you know damn well the thing's going to cost that, so we can— Yeah.
I think that's another thing, that one gift is more expensive than the other.
Mm-hmm.
You get a pretty good story, and you're a pretty good trader on state gifts, as a matter of fact, because the pandas are a hell of a lot more exciting than the musk oxen.
I'll say they are.
And the hydrofoils.
Are people going out to see those damn things, incidentally?
Oh, yeah.
I haven't followed that.
Yes, sir.
That's good.
Big, big draw.
Yep.
Very.
Okay.
Fine.
NARA Description
On May 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 10:58 am to 11:08 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 131-027 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 131-27
Date: May 18, 1972
Time: 10:58 am - 11:08 am
Location: Camp David Study Table
The President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.
[See also Conversation No. 191-5]
George C. Wallace
-Telephone call from the President
-Visit from the President
-John B. Connally's advice
**********************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 11/06/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[131-027-w001]
[Duration: 1m 16s]
-Political future
-Democratic Convention
-Potential support of the President
-Help making the President
-Inability to get Vice Presidential nomination
-George S. McGovern
-Hubert H. Humphrey
-Third party candidacy
**********************************************************************
George C. Wallace
-Visit from President
-Walter Reed Hospital
-Holy Cross Hospital
-Condition
-Logistics
-Helicopter landing
-Walter Reed Hospital
-Driving time
-Walter Reed Hospital
-Press coverage
-Landing
-Visit to wounded Secret Service agent
-Secrecy
President's schedule
-Meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
-The President’s view
-Length
-Soviet Summit
-Henry A. Kissinger
-Soviet Summit
-Preparation
-Briefing with congressional leaders
-Time
-Day
-Reception for press
-Time
-Pictures
-Handshaking
-Remarks
-Questions
-Meeting with John D. Ehrlichman
-Agenda
-Trip to Soviet Union
-Details
-Number of stops
-Silverware
-Food
-Philosophy
-Gifts
-People's Republic of China [PRC]
-Mementos
-Invitation and menu
-Cadillac
-Logistics
-Considerations
-Government exchange
-Hydrofoil
-The President
-Cadillac
-Leonid I. Brezhnev
-Hydrofoil
-Cadillac
-Use
-French car for Brezhnev
-John A. Scali
-Costs
-Hydrofoil versus Cadillac
-Pandas, musk oxen
-Interest in pandasAlso recorded on May 18, 1972
- 131-026 10:33 AM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:33 am and 10:58 am.
- 191-004 10:33 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:33 am and 10:58 am.
- 191-005 10:58 AM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 10:58 am to 11:08 am.
- 131-028 11:08 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:08 am and 11:22 am.
- 191-006 11:08 AM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:08 am and 11:22 am.
- 191-007 11:08 AM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:08 am and 11:22 am.
- 131-029 11:22 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 11:22 am to 11:23 am.
- 191-008 11:22 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 11:22 am to 11:23 am.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 131-027, May 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/131-027 (accessed October 12, 2026).