On June 7, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:22 am to 9:38 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 133-005 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello?
Good morning, Mr. President.
Well, I hope you went to bed after I talked to you.
Yes, I did, sir.
Nope.
So I just stayed up.
Well, I was delighted to talk to you.
I get kind of excited over elections.
I hadn't listened to it at all until I talked to you.
Well, let's see.
You've probably got some pretty good MAR figures now, haven't you?
Yes, sir.
What I have this morning, it looks great.
It's even better than when we talked last evening.
From our standpoint, McGovern has won California, but he's won it with a closer vote than...
He would have liked, and I think one that, personally, I think this kind of cuts his momentum down.
He was 78%.
How much?
78?
78% of the vote in.
He gets 45%.
Humphrey, 38.
And Wallace, 6.
So that proves that Field is a goddamn crook, doesn't it?
Yes, it does.
It proves that Field is a crook, and it also is going to give Humphrey quite a charge, because everybody, even the ABC poll,
It didn't have 20, but it had a lead of about 15, I guess, 14.
This is 45 to 38?
Yes, sir.
That's only seven points.
Yes, sir.
How are the media playing it, Chuck?
I haven't seen anything on the media around it, Mr. President.
I'm just taking this from the wires.
Yeah.
But my God, that's 45 to 38.
Well, Dick Howard in my office who's been watching this.
Dick who?
One of my men who's been watching this.
Howard?
Howard, yes.
Yeah, I know.
He's from California.
He said that McGovern has been edging down.
He's been watching it for the last several hours.
Yeah.
And he said that McGovern has been edging down 47 to 46 to 45, so that it looks like it was closing over the last three hours.
Well, 78% and that's pretty close, but he might end up with only 46.
Well, where is, well...
San Francisco's now all in.
It's all in, I know, because they have computers there.
Right.
And they would be in by this time.
So the opry strength, there could be some paper ballots out.
He might pick up a little more.
See, that's why he's picking up.
That's right.
It's paper ballots.
That's right.
And, of course, it's a long, it's apparently a very long and complicated ballot.
Always is, always is.
And it's hard for them to get it all.
But on the Republican side, you've got a million and a half votes, 90%, Ashbrook 10, which is...
stuck right consistent with last night and i think one hell of a showing a million and uh it's a uh 10 or how are they counting that is it at 90 or 85 88 or no it's right at the
President, your total is right at 90%.
All right.
Well, that's pretty good, isn't it?
Damn good.
Did anybody complain about that?
No.
Are they saying this is a great showing for Ashbrook?
No, they won't.
They can't.
See, this is Ashbrook's where he put all of his money and all of his strength, and he said California's what counted.
All of his money and all of his campaigning, and he did everything in California.
And you do have a conservative area of the state that ought to be able to do better than 10% if there's any disaffection with you.
It would show in California.
And this is a token.
Well, it's Orange County, San Diego and the suburbs of Los Angeles are the conservative areas.
Exactly.
And if there were anything that if there any place that you were going to do well, 10 percent is a damn poor showing because I don't care whether I don't care who you are, an incumbent president who gets 90 percent or who you're running against.
That's.
You're not going to get better than 90.
You can put a chimpanzee on the ballot and he's going to get 10%.
I know.
That's exactly right.
People just say, well, I don't like you, son of a bitch.
Well, you look at the other states, Mr. President, where they went and tested.
Hell, we still get only 90, 91 right in that area.
The McGovern-Humphrey thing, Chuck, that is very significant.
Some of these people are going to start to worry.
I mean, they're going to think this goddamn field is a son of a bitch and liar.
That's all.
I've always known he was.
That's right.
Look, it couldn't have been a 20% lead a week ago and now end up with around 7%, could it?
No.
No, it was not.
I think what happened is the Kennedy people went in and bought the poles, the upholsters, don't you think?
Do you remember they did it against us in 1960?
Always do that, and they created this enormous momentum for the guy in the psychology.
My God, he's been...
I just sent you a, I just texted you up a note about this.
He has given the impression of being invincible over the last week, and yet this shows that he just squeaked this one out.
He says this is no big runaway.
And it's, from our standpoint, Mr. President, it's the best of all results, because what it does is to govern wins, which we want.
He gets those delegates.
but he doesn't show a big, really a big popular support in the Democratic Party.
He's still a minority candidate.
What is his, have you got the vote totals there?
I don't have them right here, Mr. President.
It's just the percentages.
It's just the percentages, yes, sir.
I'm sorry, I'm up in, as a matter of fact, I'm up in Boston this morning because my son is graduating from prep school this morning.
You got to make a speech?
I did Friday night.
Oh, I thought you said you had your father and son dinner, but this is just to come up.
her diploma i'll be i'll be back by that afternoon what are we going to have the speech on birth control well one of his students is talking and no not up here
Well, I did Friday night, and that thing really, really, and you said it did go over well up there, did it?
Yes, sir, with older people.
What was your theme?
What was your theme?
in the world in three years and i said that people will criticize one policy or another they may not think we've done enough in this area or that but look at the broad context here the president came back this week as a man who really changed the whole relationship of all nations
But our world looks better today.
And a step for peace.
And it's a step that some people will think is not far enough, and some people will think we're too far.
But just think of the enormous change that's been taken a hell of a hand from a bunch of Cambridge liberals.
Give that theme around a few people to use, will you?
Yes, sir.
I put some notes together because I was going to...
Right.
If you find something that hits, then give it to congressmen, senators, speakers, etc.
Well, not only hit, but I talked about how you had been thinking this all through for three years.
And when I started talking about the effort you put into this, I discovered that the whole damn room went silent.
You know, they just were kind of just enthralled with the idea that... You know, you could really go back further than that if you'd want.
You can go back to, say, years, the fellow that came out of World War II.
He was a young congressman.
He was then vice president.
He lived through the period when we had the world divided in half...
which was a necessary period in support of the Eisenhower-Dulles policy.
Then he was out of office, and instead of out of office just brooding and sulking with his own money, he traveled around the world four different times, and he visited 50 countries in that period of time and continued to study the situation and reached conclusions that we had to change the world or we were going down the road to a terrible...
That's right.
And that all the time I was out of office, I supported, never a word of criticism of the administration's policy while I was abroad.
I think a little of that isn't bad.
Oh, it's great.
And I, of course, being up here in Massachusetts, I mentioned the fact that during the campaign, when Ed Brook was on the campaign plane with you, you talked about the need to open communications with China.
That's right.
God, that just caused people's chins to drop.
No, Ed was there.
That's right.
And, of course, he's a very good name up here.
He...
You know, the people up here, Mr. President, I've only come up here twice in the last few weeks, quick trips for my son.
But, boy, they're bullish as hell about you right now, Peggy Heckler.
Of course, as I told you, there's one congressional district up here where they just took a Becker poll, and you win it overwhelmingly over McEvern.
So I'm not even so sure that we'd necessarily write this kooky state off.
If they don't put Muskie on, we aren't going to write Maine off anyway, are we?
Oh, my God, I wouldn't.
I think we could win Maine.
Well, you'd do well in all the rest of New England.
Massachusetts is such a crazy state that I wouldn't fool with it.
Go on with the other results.
How about New Jersey?
In New Jersey, at the moment, he's picking up 70 delegates out of
most to pick up 80, so he's not, at this reading at 9 o'clock, he's not doing quite as well in the total as he projected, but about what he projected.
In New Mexico, we still have a neck-and-neck, they've got almost all the votes in, and it looks like he's got 33% and Wallace 29, which is a... That's good.
Oh, that's a hell of a dig for him.
Eastland was re-nominated easily.
Yeah.
case, no surprises on the Senate side.
And then in South Dakota, of course, McGovern had an unopposed shot at it, so it didn't mean anything.
Who got the Senate nomination in South Dakota?
And did we get a good candidate, I hope?
I haven't seen that, Mr. President.
I haven't seen New Mexico either, where we have a chance of winning that seat.
Oh, sure, we can win that one.
If Domenici got the nomination, we're in good shape.
He's the one, yeah.
I didn't check that, but I will.
Let's see, the...
The total delegates yesterday that McGovern gained would be around 370, which will give him over 900.
That brings him to 900?
Yes, sir.
And New York will bring him to 1,100.
1,100, and he's picking them up, you know, here and there.
He'll go in just about where we figure it, 1,300.
What's it take to nominate?
1,509.
Hell, he'll win it.
Oh, yeah.
I don't think they can stop him.
But the beauty of it, Mr. President, is that he will go in as clearly a minority nominee.
I mean, if he had gone over 50 in California, as the first returns last night indicated, he would be a hell of a lot stronger.
But the way it stands now... Are you sure that figure's right, 45 to 38?
That's what my office gave me just about 15 minutes ago.
And what I'll do is...
immediately the very latest numbers.
Tell you what, I'll just give Dan a call.
I'll let him.
He likes to give me a few figures.
Well, at 9, at 9 o'clock, what I read to you was the latest.
And as I say, I'd had a man watching it since 6 o'clock, and he said that it had been 47, 38, and then it was 46, 38, and now 45, 38.
So as he was watching it on the wires, it was...
was closing up a bit uh yours holding very steady at 90 percent so it uh i'm just i'm thrilled with it because it uh you know he could i wanted to get those delegates and uh but it sort of tells us maybe tells us something about the debates and maybe all the feeling that he was such a slash
I'm not sure.
It may be that old Hubie's, you know.
Exactly right.
The funny thing, how people react, they may just thought, well, this guy's a little too slick.
Well, you remember also, Mr. President, when we took Muskie on, he was running neck and neck with you in the trial heats.
You remember it was 42-42 in Gallup.
All right.
And we took him on, and everybody said, oh, my God, you can't do that.
Yeah, remember Hallett?
Oh, God.
And, oh, sure, Hallett said, you've just nominated Muskie.
Lost the election.
All the guys around the White House were saying, you can't do that.
Well, we tore the guy apart in nothing flat.
And this may be a year, you know, when public attitudes are so volatile.
that a McGovern can be the hottest thing in May and an awful cold fish in July because when he's taken on and those opinions get known and he, I got some of the quotes that I was reading yesterday would absolutely curl people's hair.
I have more sympathy for the Viet Cong than for the South Vietnamese, my God.
He said that just last year.
You know, some of these things people are going to... Incidentally, I would insert...
In practice, he's communist Viet Cong.
Right.
When you use that, yeah.
Exactly.
Well, also, you know, he can attempt to come to the center, but he will, in the process of doing so, he's liable to make himself not look like such a...
You know, he's got this image now of being the straight arrow, but if he starts moving too hard to the center, people will say, oh, hell, he's just another.
In fact, that's the thing that killed him, is to say, oh, he's just another politician.
But then people begin to think, well, he is this great populist and great idealist and courageous man.
He's just another Paul who's shifted.
I think it may have gotten through to him, Mr. President.
I think some of this, this isn't all field.
This difference is not all field.
No, no.
Field would load it, obviously, and did load it.
But some of it is the fact that I think his people began to focus on what he stood for.
And if more of that is done, and as I told you last evening, we've got some help started now on the other side there.
with a pretty good lineup of people who are going to start hitting him hard.
Well, they might, if the press is honest, they might interpret this as not being the great, as being sort of a boost for Humphrey even though he lost, huh?
Considering where he was a week ago, yes.
They will have to say that.
I don't think they can avoid saying that it was closer than anyone expected and surprisingly close.
been predicted.
Everybody yesterday, you know, my God, you read all the Broder-Wilberdorfer stuff, they thought he was going to just... Two to one.
Sure, two to one runaway.
I'm pretty dead, and still may be dead, but not because of a runaway.
Well, have a good time today.
Sure.
Congratulations.
Well, I'll be back in the middle of the afternoon, Mr. President.
I know well I won't.
Probably not anything new but then.
Well, I hate to miss any days right now because they're all important.
Yeah, I know.
My son only graduates once, and I had to fly up here for it last night.
All right.
But if these figures change, my office is watching them.
I'll just have them.
Okay.
Dex them up to you, sir.
Bye.
Thank you, Mr. President.