Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Vietnam War and Ceasefire

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Good.

Might as well lay it out there.

I think we have to show that we are serious about this.

Well, what do we have yet about organized units?

No indication.

It was an enigmatic comment by Hanoi that new forces are coming into being.

New forces, what do you say?

We're coming to help solve their supply problem, but that could mean anything.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, that's fine.

But I think the North Vietnamese today accepted our proposal of the 13th and 19th.

Both public and private.

Right.

That's good.

So you're in fine shape to make the statement tonight.

Mm-hmm.

It's fine.

And they're definitely moving in something.

They're definitely going to do something, you know, because they've just invited Joe Kraft to come to Hanoi.

Oh, Jesus.

Yeah.

There's no question now they have a position.

It may be that Kraft is going in order to beef up their position with regard to the, you know, he'll be just like Tony Lewis Henry.

He'll write all that bullshit.

No, no question.

But it means they have a position while they didn't have one.

Kraft may not go so far as Lewis did in assuring them that McGovern's going to win and that sort of thing.

He's brighter.

Well, and

Probably just in his dishonest way, a little more honest.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He wants them to win, but he isn't going to give them the crap because he doesn't want to look that bad.

Lewis is basically just a whore.

Right, right.

Yeah.

I thought the announcement played well.

I think it played well.

You know, the main thing is that the draftee thing is a big thing now, and the number is irrelevant.

That's right.

I don't think we should hold around with the numbers much more.

No.

Well, look, by the time September comes, we'll say what we want to, because then it's got to be a residual in the event we haven't settled it.

We'll have to decide what the hell it is and that stuff.

Exactly, exactly.

I noticed there were casualties this week or two, so that's down some.

It can't go much lower.

It can't go any lower.

Of course, I suppose the MIAs are higher because of the aircraft.

We lose some, but...

On the other hand, when I see the Quantree thing was kicked off the pretty good bank, apparently.

That's right.

And so far, they're making good progress.

They are?

Yeah.

Well, they should, my God, with a hundred B-52s.

That's like, it's a bigger artillery barrage, and they had it done.

Oh, much more.

Jesus, he writes.

Just think of it.

And so far, in fact, they haven't had a hell of a lot of resistance.

Yeah.

And the Navy's been cracking it, too.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Well, there's bound to be something that's going to give.

They can't just go.

But there are a lot of indications that the North Vietnamese are preparing for a ceasefire.

For a ceasefire, I see.

Uh-huh.

You mean just...

I think that wouldn't be bad for us.

That's what we want, as I told you, the ceasefire.

I mean, we're getting a lot of intelligence reports to that effect now.

But a ceasefire, we're home free.

I mean, for our purposes, because, look, if you get anything that is past the election and we have a ceasefire, then let them squeal about the war.

Who the hell is going to believe it?

Exactly, exactly.

In fact, it's going to be hard for them to squeal about it.

Did you read the foreign policy platform of the Democrats?

I didn't want to lose my breakfast, so I didn't bother.

It is not to be believed.

Is it really bad?

Pull out all forces.

It's really the most cynical thing I've seen.

Pull out all forces.

Stop all military aid.

stop making the political issue a central piece of our negotiation, as if we hadn't tried to take it out of our negotiation.

Our last offer is one that does take it out.

Exactly.

In fact, what they are in effect saying is to overthrow the government.

Then all out on Israel, I mean, in a really...

nauseating way.

On Israel?

Yeah, in a degree of detail.

You know, Jerusalem should be the capital, direct negotiations between the parties.

Nauseating detail and nothing on any other issue.

First Vietnam, Israel, and then double talk on the defense program that we should do enough to reassure our allies, but not too much.

And, you know,

It's one of the most dishonest platforms I've ever seen.

Who wrote the goddamn thing, do you know?

Well, it's a McGovern thing.

I know, but his people, is it Harriman?

I don't know.

No, Harriman isn't part of this.

He wouldn't be that unprofessional.

Really?

I mean, this is a disgrace.

This is written by a bunch of cynical amateurs.

Oh, yeah.

But the all-out on Israel, isn't that something?

That is so dishonest.

I hope Rabin and that bunch aren't taken in by this kind of crap.

Good God, how can you go all out when you can't hold the ring against the Russians?

To sell out one ally, then to go all out with the other.

But, Henry, you can be for Jerusalem being the capital, and if you're cut a $35 billion defense cut, there ain't going to be anything to be capital of.

But, Mr. President, to make Jerusalem the capital of Israel is not the platform of a major American national party, for Christ's sake.

That is what I find so revolting.

These people who have nothing, they don't mention NATO, they don't mention any other major initiative, they don't mention Moscow, they don't mention Peking.

They don't?

No.

The Chinese think they don't?

No, not a word about the summit, not a word about relations with the Soviet Union, with China, with NATO, with Japan, any of the big things they don't mention.

Yeah.

Just Vietnam and Israel and ambiguous language about defense, which really gives them a chance to do what they want.

Mm-hmm.

Well, it shows you what we're content with, and it also shows the necessity for us to be in good shape, because these people are so revolting that they have to be smashed.

They must be smashed.

And I don't mean just beat them.

It's good to beat them, but I mean smashed.

They must be disgraced, driven right out of public life.

I couldn't agree more.

It's an awful thing.

I could not agree more.

Well, anyway, we've put our...

best foot forward.

And I got your, incidentally, I have your, I got your stuff.

It came up.

I'm, uh, I came, I got it just before you left.

So we're all set on that.

And I'll keep the lines out just like that.

And I think if Kraft goes, you won't have a talk with him before.

I mean, and just put it right to him.

I'd be very tough with him, Henry.

I'd say, now, Joe, do you want this war to end or not?

And so you just forget everything else.

And then I put, why don't you put out a little to the effect that, well, now look here,

you realize that we now have them where the responsibility for prolonging the war is going to be squarely on McGovern.

I want you to put that line out.

Don't you think so?

Well, I don't think I should do that because he'll print it.

But what I should say is the responsibility for the war is now on those, I shouldn't mention McGovern, who are raising false issues.

Yeah.

And I think I can tell, yeah, he's just got a glimmer of decency.

Yeah, and you can point out that now it's ready to go, and that what he says is, I think you can play to his ego, that what he tells them can have an enormous effect, that if he gives them encouragement.

Also drop in the fact that, I just want you to know that we're here.

This man is still president, regardless of what happens until January the 20th.

Let him have that.

I don't want him to think that the election is... Because all holds are allowed after November 7th, regardless.

And I think just so he doesn't go over there with a bullshit...

to the effect, well, now just hang on, McGovern's coming on, the young people are for him, and if you can beat Nixon, then you'll be home free.

That will be a totally unpatriotic thing to do.

Also, isn't he interested in Israel?

Kraft?

Well, I don't know.

Well, if he is, you can point out, how the hell can we do it without a true defense?

I don't think he'll go so far as to tell them to hold out until November.

Yeah, well, that's the main thing.

Okay.

And I'm not sure they can.

Well, let me say, let me say, I'm going to get the credit.

But I mean, we cannot let, we cannot let Peterson take this from Butts.

Butts was over there first.

I couldn't agree more.

And Peterson, what the hell?

He's going to get a chance at the second thing.

You mean they're going to find out who's going to get credit?

God damn it, what the hell's the matter with these people?

Had it occurred to either of them that I have to get the credit?

Well, that's what I told them, and I also said that you did it.

After all, it's a letter from Bresner to you in response to a proposal you made to Bresner.

On the last day, wasn't it?

Exactly.

Now, Butts has the rather smart idea that maybe you'd want to go out to the Middle West.

on the day of the announcement and get it made out there.

Well, I can do that.

But if you might consider, well, don't bother about it today, a date when you might want to do this, whether you want it after or before the Democratic Convention.

After.

Right.

Well, we don't have to.

I think after is better.

Let's drop everything in there and just slam it right in.

I think on the way back from California, I could stop in the Midwest and make the announcement.

That's what I prefer.

If we can hold it till then.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

Absolutely.

We'll do it.

We'll aim for that.

All right, Henry.

Thank you.

Good job.

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Vietnam War and Ceasefire

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 29, 1972

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