On July 23, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 10:52 am to 11:37 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 136-019 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello.
Good morning, Mr. President.
Well, how are you feeling this morning?
Fine.
Finished with Connolly?
Yes, well, I'm not finished.
We're going to go back to work this afternoon.
What time's his program?
It'll be on at, let's see, Meet the Press is at 1, 1 o'clock on NBC.
Which one is he on, Meet the Press?
Meet the Press, yes, sir.
And who are the others?
McGovern is on Face the Nation and Eagleton is on Issues and Answers, right?
What time do they come on?
Let's see, Face the Nation with McGovern is 12.30, and Issues and Answers is 1.30, I think.
If you're watching it, I think the Washington Channels, those are the times, I think they're different, perhaps, than Baltimore, but I don't know what you get there.
Yeah.
Let's see, Face the Nation is 12.30 here.
I don't know about Baltimore.
Meet the Press is definitely 1 o'clock.
And Conley's doing that live, and he is all primed.
Sure.
Well, he'll...
One thing about him, if he gets unexpected questions, he knows how to handle them and finesse them.
Well, we talked last night.
He's decided to say that because we went through our lists, and the lists are pretty impressive now.
We really have the makings of a hell of a good national organization.
He's decided to say today that he is forming Democrats for Nixon and hopes to have an office within a week.
and that anybody who wants to stay in the Democratic Party and not join the McGovernites ought to write to John Connolly, Washington, D.C. Yeah.
He'll get a little free advertising today.
Sure.
Good.
You know what I think we ought to do?
That's a very good theme.
If you...
I mean, you could say to Democrats for an ad...
Let me think.
You could use newspaper ads.
I mean, it's not bad to do ads early sometimes, even on TV when it's not expected.
You could say to Democrats, I don't know that we've got any smart ad writers who are not around, but they must have over there.
Oh, yeah.
With the AR group, who know how, but you could say if...
For an ad, you could put a home, somebody being driven out of his home, to Democrats.
If you've been driven out of your home by the McGovernites, your party home by the McGovernites, join Democrats for Nixon, right?
John Connolly, so forth.
You can find him, join Democrats for Nixon, something like that.
Driven out of your home, your party's home, your party home, by the McGovernites.
Uh-huh.
or something like that or if you all democrats who want to well anyway they've got to get that theme all across and then say democrats and independents you could say if George McGovern does not represent your views
join democrats for nixon yeah if you don't want to be in the mcgovernite party if you want to get out of the governor and stay in the democratic party that's another one if you want to get out of the governor mcgovernite party and stay in the democratic party join democrats for nixon nixon but he feels he's uh steamed up about it he feels uh i know he feels strongly in the issues but uh
And he now is cranked up, Mr. President.
We sat there yesterday while he made calls and got C.R.
Smith, who used to be Secretary of Commerce, and Sawyer, who was Secretary of Commerce under Truman.
And John started just batting the calls out one after another.
And he said after the program today, he'd like me to come back so we can keep doing it.
I think he was kind of encouraged by reactions he's getting as he talks to people.
Yeah, that's good.
This sort of buoys him up.
A fellow's got a feel that other people are going with him.
You see, when he's down there in Texas, he just hears from his own people.
But if you get John Connolly, Washington, D.C., that's the way it ought to be.
The Post Office Department will deliver that.
We'll handle it.
We're sending somebody down there.
I talked to Wattenberg yesterday, and he thinks he'll work for—we think he'll work for Christian Reiting.
And Wattenberg is a brilliant writer.
Yeah.
And he said he would be delighted to do it, and he said Scammon's okay, which I'm sure I can handle.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And Scammon ought to feel pretty good.
I mean, he knows he has an entree that is really open, and it is, you know, because I've told Connolly that everybody has an— that we're not going to treat them the same as the damn Republicans, because believe me,
I'm not a bit enamored with this idea that we take these old farts that are just hung around and whine and bitched all the time as Republicans and then give them jobs when we've got outsiders that really want to go.
You see, the two most enthusiastic people we have had in our White House cabinet group have been Democrats, Johnson and Moynihan.
Now, what the hell?
We're just not going to have this whining around.
That's the way I feel about it.
Well, I wish we could think of a name for this.
You know, New York, they call it the fusion ticket.
Well, basically, if it weren't for the Civil War, it should be the ticket of national union.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, the national union.
Really, we're going to need a coin of phrase for it.
We need some time during the campaign to come up with a phrase that matches what we're talking about.
Well, tell them to get at it.
The national fusion is not good because it has a connotation of New York City politics.
We'll find the phrase for it.
At the moment, the best thing that we can be doing is...
talking about democrats who want to save the democratic party that's the other side but another thing you could just put on an ad save the democratic point party uh join democrats for nixon don't uh beat them with other nights yeah yeah something like that yeah mrs meyer that to the wife of that mayor up there milwaukee was the one who she coined the phrase she said i want to save the democratic party it's going down the drain yeah and uh
We could do some cute things with it.
Save the Democratic Party.
That's what John said.
Join Democrats for Nixon.
Yeah, but we'll have some ad people working on this because that's one of the first things we'll do.
And then submit it all to Connolly, and he'll have the judgment as to whether it will appeal to Democrats.
That's right.
And he's tracking well on this.
You know what I had not had a chance to do with him Friday afternoon because we had just been too busy seeing people, but
Then I went over with him yesterday where really the reports from all over the country and the names and then he started calling and then of course he really got cranked up.
He wants now to have this, we've hired the office space and he wants now to get it staffed and he's beginning to sound a little more ambitious about what he wants to do with it.
I think he'll, I think John will really turn loose at this point.
One thing that I mentioned to Haldeman that has to be done, and it has to be set up in the budget, he will not ask for it, and naturally he won't take a salary, but a very large, a very large...
uh unaccounted for uh expense account must be given to him in other words he just got to realize that all of his entertaining and at home in here from now on is taken care of by the committee see what i mean very large one i mean i don't care i don't know what it is maybe it's 5 000 a month or what the hell it ought to be that's apart from of course all of his out of pocket but you but connolly should not
have to say, well, I spent so much for meals and booze and so forth and so on.
It's just a very large expense account because he's going to spend a hell of a lot of his time here.
Obviously, he'll have a telephone credit card and all that jazz, but that isn't enough.
He just needs a large, just a very large expense.
It's everything from tipping to, I just, frankly, I just turn over, if you could, I just turn over a healthy amount of cash.
You could tell Haldeman, basically, which he can get, he can probably find some cash and just say, look, here it is for your incidental expenses, and then he just uses it.
But I'd rather do that than a check.
I think that's better, and we have a, I have a very, very bright young fellow that I've just stuck with kindly, and he likes him now, and he...
He goes around and he's got the limousine and the hotels and the direct phone lines and he picks up the bills.
We'll see that he's well.
Well, I'll talk to him about the cash part of the day.
We've just got to get that to him so that he doesn't feel a bit embarrassed about it.
Well, I've raised it with him once, the whole subject, and he just wants to speak.
Frankly, what he said to me is, he said, you just take care of that.
Yeah, he...
He's the kind of fellow he doesn't...
He won't press, but it should be pressed upon him.
I'll see that that's definitely...
He's great.
Well, the Agnew story sort of dominated yesterday, didn't it?
Sure did.
I thought it played quite well.
Well, it was fine.
The only thing that... His rhetoric sounded better, too.
He did all right in what he said.
Yeah.
as cute and clippy.
Yeah.
No, we've talked to him now.
And we've got to get him off.
We've got to get him onto this McGovern Heights line also.
Not that the Democratic Party has been taken over by an elite.
That isn't the...
He said that yesterday, but that isn't... No, that's his line.
That's also Buchanan's line.
Yeah, well, that's not the line we want.
The line is...
I don't think elite people know what the hell elite is anymore.
Well, elite is all right.
Well, elite is okay, but I'm going to say that they have stolen the Democratic machinery away from the Democratic Party.
It's not that...
They haven't taken over the Democratic Party.
There are millions of Democrats who aren't going to support them.
In any event, they can get going on that.
The governed people, I think, are doing what you might anticipate.
They're throwing up the usual debate smoke screen.
I thought McGregor handled that very well.
Yeah, perfect.
And I think we have to knock that out right now.
I mean, there's no use to screw around with the debate stuff because they know damn well it's a joke.
and uh we don't uh they they'll try to just twine around and make it an issue but he's in not too good a position on that because he voted against the suspension of 315 in 1964. now he's for the suspension of 315 now that's just crude crass politics we're exactly the same way we we debate when we're out and they want to debate when they're out well he's uh he's acting a little bit uh just a little bit panicky today the the
meetings he's holding with his advisors, hitting the debate subject so quickly.
Yeah, it was a little early, I thought.
I mean, I think he should have waited until after the nomination.
Sure.
If I were he, I'd save that one until I felt like I was beginning to make a little bit of progress.
And he just threw that right out on the table, sort of on a Saturday, which is not too... Well, doesn't he?
He really has to, in a sense.
I mean, he's got to get some momentum going.
And, of course, I must say that...
i looked at the star this morning and my god i've uh i mean i wouldn't i wouldn't have been surprised in the post but you see that that picture of the little boy at eight years of age awful i don't remember seeing jesus key rush did you did you ever see one of me anytime no ever anytime at any on the front page nope i never have it is unbelievable damn thing you're responding but it shows you what we're up against you see better remember with the star now that they've taken over the daily news that
60 of their circulation will be to blacks and it's a it's a tragedy in a sense but the star will now be competing for the same audiences yes or even even uh even more the less sophisticated it'll be it'll be uh come more of the uh the people's people drag and the black uh i know you watch they'll start hitting a lot of black columns in here and it's just a damn shame because we'll lose
Someday, some very rich conservative will put in a paper in Washington.
It ought to be done.
It's the only place where a paper can influence people.
Nobody can buy the Times.
They'll never sell it.
The Star is a pretty bad property anyway now.
It's all family, incestuous.
Somebody's got to buy the goddamn Star and just go to work.
Well, I think either that or...
one one little object i have in mind there someday when i'm back in private life is to the graham thing yeah i'm gonna figure out how to do that because jesus that would that would it would have one hell of an impact if you just ran a conservative washington boast in the morning here well i even even ran a just ran a conservative just sort of a sort of a straight uh straight out like chicago daily news kind of a paper which you know runs at both sides
It just doesn't run at all against us.
Well, it's something that will happen in the city, I'm sure.
I'm not referring to the editorials.
I'm referring to the news coverage.
The news coverage, it kills us.
The editorials really don't matter all that much, but the year.
Yeah.
Because people discount it and expect it.
But the front page treatment could make one hell of a difference to us.
Right, but particularly on the people that do the reporting and the covering and so forth.
Well, and there's so goddamn many weak people in this town who just pick that up in the morning and that's it.
Well, particularly the people that really are weak are our own people.
I mean, I must say that every time I meet with our legislative leaders, they really are like children.
They're so damned unbelievable.
I mean, they just haven't any steel.
And, of course, a hell of a lot of your White House...
The staff people were that way.
A lot of them are getting over it, but a lot of them, you know, they just panic every time they see something in the goddamn Post or the Times.
They should pay no attention.
I thought that meeting Friday morning, Mr. President, in the State Downing was one of the best we've ever had.
It really was kind of an upbeat, strong, it was a feeling of, I don't know, very...
It may have helped a little.
And afterwards, people were kind of upbeat.
Well, they...
They ought to be in any event.
Say, look, what is the, you know, we were talking about, I was talking to Bob yesterday about Harris' on the trial heats.
Did you get his trial heat information yet?
All I have, Mr. President, is the overall figure on the two-way 5535.
But that was his July figure.
That's the one just finished.
That's the one that he finished.
Well, then it must be the same as this July figure, because Bob was going over the polls yesterday, and he said, what do you have on Harris?
And he had the same, he said the 5535, which is what Harris is just before the convention.
So maybe this is exactly the same, and there's no change.
No, that's right.
The figure that, let me get my Harris data out here.
The figure that I have from Lou, which he phoned up from the Virgin Islands, and I haven't yet been able to get him myself personally.
although he'll be back Tuesday morning, so I'll get it all in detail.
The figure that he gave us, 5535, is the same as in the two-way race.
No, it isn't.
I'm sorry.
His July figure in the two-way race is early July.
No, I'm sorry.
His June figure
which was the period June 10 to June 15, in a two-way race, was Nixon 54 and McGovern 38.
I see.
That's June.
Let me see if he has a later figure than that.
That was June 10.
Yeah, that's probably his last.
That's the last detailed figure.
And maybe he had one in early July.
Well, anyway, the present figure that he will be using is 5535, approximately.
Yes, sir, 5535.
But you don't know when he's going to use that.
He comes so much later than Gallup, is there?
No, the normal thing would be about, oh, let's say a week from next Monday would be.
No, no, he could do it.
He could get that one out for next week.
That's possible.
See, Gallup already having moved on his, I would think that Harris would want to move.
Well, I think so, except I kind of like the way Harris spaces it, because everybody thinks it's new news.
That's right.
And he'll make five polls out of this one, because he's got that confidence thing in him.
Well, and he's got that other one, that new question, which he's never asked before.
Who would you trust most in the White House?
And there he's got Nixon 56, McGovern 31.
That's...
Yeah.
That's not only a 25-point spread, but that's a pretty... Yeah.
That feeds the danger question.
You know, that's who do you trust?
That's the danger question, isn't it?
It really is.
And that's the...
It certainly blasts the McGovern people out on the man-you-can-trust kind of a thing, too.
Oh, he's losing that very, very... You think he is?
Yeah.
I mean, here's where his shifting hurts him a bit.
Yes, it does.
It's a dead light.
He pulled another almost...
I mean, only the sophisticates understand it, but...
He's coming out saying that right after his inauguration, he would cut off aid to Greece.
It's totally irrelevant as far as the Greek community here is concerned.
They're too small a matter anyway.
But if you cut off aid to Greece, you destroy NATO.
Just totally, totally.
That's why we don't do it.
It isn't that we like dictators.
But isn't that something?
Oh, it's not only that.
But I would think somebody would speak up on that, but nobody's got the brains to do it.
No, no, I just made a note this morning to do two things.
One, to compare what he says about Greece with what he said about Chile.
In other words, in Chile...
Very good point.
Chile wants to give more aid.
That's right.
Don't cut it off.
Exactly.
He said there's no reason just because there's a communist government.
Communism's just another form of government.
Well...
Well, Chile is basically a pro-communist dictatorship.
Yes, and his agenda is an anti-communist dictatorship.
Now, the point is that he is making a major issue out of cutting off aid to an anti-communist dictatorship while he wants to continue to give it to a communist dictatorship.
That's crazy.
I mean, it's just evidence of the fellow's left-leaning, that he'll favor a communist country but oppose an anti-communist country.
The other thing is that that just sends the Jews out of their minds.
The idea of any retrenchment in the Mediterranean is something that the Jewish sophisticates who are concerned about Israel, they go up the wall.
That, to me, is a terribly ill-advised statement.
Well, I don't think he gains by that.
Who the hell is the people who are concerned about the repression in Greece, the same people who got very excited over that movie, I can't think of the name of it, but there was a film about it, and it sounds busy.
are Bermudevanites anyway.
Well, it's the New York Times, the Washington Post, the networks.
Let's face it.
He's appealing to his own constituency.
I just think that's the kind of addition in a political campaign that you are a hell of a lot better at avoiding, just ducking it.
Don't raise it, because it's going to cut you up with a lot of people.
This is where I don't understand the full of political judgment, frankly.
I really don't.
I think you...
There are two things we'll do at Greece, and one is compare it with the statements that he, that letter he just wrote to the Latin press on Cuba and Chile.
And there he wants to establish more friendly relationships with Castro and with Chile.
But in Greece, that's just evidence of the fellow's leanings.
I thought also that poll this morning, not that poll, but the survey that was done in the Post on the senatorial case,
well it's obviously it was uh they were trying as best they could to write it in a way that it didn't appear too bad that's right even then it showed but but i'll tell you one thing i hope that dominic who is not the brightest guy but this is a nice fellow well-meaning
that he'll have the sense to get whatever stupid candidate we've got in Montana to kill that Metcalf with that.
Yeah, well, he should hang him with it.
Well, have we got any candidate up there, I suppose?
I don't even know who we have running, Mr. President.
Well, that is one that they ought to get on immediately.
I mean, I tried to get that across, but, you know, both Dominic and Wilson were there, but they are really, they're two guys.
Wilson is just...
basically is suffering from senility at an early age.
And Dominic just doesn't pick it up because he's thinking about his own little issue, his narrow issues.
But believe me, the point that I made, which will help us great nationally, I think every candidate, and certainly one or two see that this is done.
I mean, get McGregor to follow up on it.
That's the way to do it.
Get McGregor to follow up.
So that every Republican candidate running in the most impossible district next week
Starts a drum fire, a drum beat, forcing him.
Now, I ordered this about a month ago.
Has anything been done about it?
Yes, sir.
I talked myself to Jack Corkins.
What's he done?
He sent a message out to me.
Well, then get a report on it.
Then what should happen is it should be followed up this week.
and you say that, don't say you're doing it for me, but say that McGregor, then he should get a telephone report, and I want to see the report at the end of next week.
Let's just see what they get.
They should call each one of his candidates, each one of our candidates.
All right, that's a better thing.
Survey every Republican candidate for the House and the Senate, the incumbents and those who are challengers, and every Republican candidate, and ask them to indicate, and even for governors.
and say, will you please tell us whether or not your opponent is supporting McGovern?
you know that makes a hell of a good news story well of course of course but you see they've got to get at it chuck our people are not not thinking up anything waiting for people to tell them what to do but now that's such an obvious story yeah but it's got to be done it's got to be followed up now but about four or five people on the telephone and then call every damn candidate he'll he'll feel that he's helping but when we want to know we're taking a national survey we need to know
and whatever you get, you might find some weaknesses on the other side that we haven't even thought of.
But that must be done, and it must be done immediately.
I'll have that started tomorrow morning, Mr. President.
The point is, has your opponent indicated whether he supports McGovern?
Would his support of McGovern help him or hurt in his district?
And it is strongly urged that you demand that he indicate whether he's going to support McGovern.
And then in close, in the same letter, the last poll, whatever it is, because these dumb bastards don't even see the polls.
They really don't.
They're very parochial, particularly Republican-type candidates are just stupid as hell.
Well, I agree with that.
The other reason that we're going to do this is that we want to ask everybody out around the country to send us names of Democrats who want to defect, and not defect, Democrats who want to support us.
Sure.
And so we've already begun a...
Let's call them loyal Democrats.
Loyal Democrats, yes.
Loyal Democrats.
And you might mention that to Connolly after the program.
Preempt the term loyal from him.
He'll try to say loyal to you.
We'll say loyal Democrats.
And by loyal, we mean loyal to the principles of the Democratic Party.
I think Connolly may use that because we... What we need are the loyal Democrats.
We're going to appeal to loyal Democrats.
These people basically are not unpatriotic, not patriotic Democrats, but loyal Democrats, loyal to the principles of the Democratic Party.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's a good phrase, and we will...
But we'll be very careful that you don't say McGovern is disloyal, because then they'll start to say, ah, your question is patriotism, so we're just talking about party now.
That's right.
Well, we...
The loyal phrase is a good one, because it... Democratic loyalists.
Yeah, it ties into the previous credential fights and all that that they've had over it, the loyal Democrats fight.
It's a good term to take away from it.
when i had talked to him about it on monday he had had told me that he was that the
apart from the Teamster thing, that he had made that he and Hodgson had decided that they couldn't get this thing through and that they had to have a different approach.
Oh, we had decided that to really 10 days before the Teamster.
The only thing that...
But it was decided in that, in connection, it happened at both Meany and the Teamster, but apparently where it dropped between the stools was in having Silverman or whatever his name is go up and
You don't do anything at that level there, the proud senator.
I don't know what the hell happened, but Schultz, I told him he had to go talk to him, but he went to the maiming girl, so he probably missed him.
But did Hodgson go talk?
What was Hodgson going to tell him?
Well, I asked Hodgson Friday morning right after the meeting, first of all, to have a press conference to explain it, which he did, but he made it worse.
He did.
Jim is not very good at that stuff, you know.
And how'd he make it first?
Well, he said... Fortunately, he didn't get much play.
No, he got very little play.
And he had a press conference in which he was supposed to say that this decision had been made ahead of time, and that's the basic reason.
And it happens to be a hell of a good reason.
And if you get an opportunity, it may be one you'll want to hit.
A negative vote at this time would have probably killed that bill for the next session.
Yeah.
And here you have...
it's not only the point is that i don't know whether uh maybe uh which of course i just assumed everybody knew but again our people are so goddamn dumb they probably aren't the vote in the senate is irrelevant because
You can never, first and second, Mansfield would never bring it up for a vote.
That's right.
The third point is that in the House there is no way that it would ever get out of the Labor Committee.
That's right.
Because the Labor Committee is, that fellow from Kentucky has it, and he is not going to let the bill out.
So the thing is dead.
We've had it there for two years, it's like, and so we have to make a different approach.
Well, the whole point is that for two and a half years the Democrats
of Congress had an opportunity to act on this bill.
They brought it up once for a vote in the Senate during the West Coast dock strike when there was in being a national crippling strike and the goddamn Democrats defeated it.
Now what makes you think not with a dock strike going on, with no national strike in process, that it would then pass?
It's just foolish.
And the only thing that happened here that was unfortunate was that Silverman, who's an absolute jackass, to me he's screwed up that New York labor situation for us in such a way that
Schultz almost fired him, and over, I mean, almost told Hudson to fire him.
That was about three months ago.
He goes up to see Packwood.
He's a very abrasive young Jew, and he just didn't sell it.
So I told Hudson Friday to A, have a press conference and explain the goddamn thing, which he did not do well, and then go see Packwood and sit down with him and explain it, because it was unfortunate that they just did not handle Packwood well.
But we've got to get up and handle him right now because he's a backward, at least, you know, he's a little erratic, but he's not a bad fellow.
No, he's a pretty good fellow.
And God damn it, it's just not right to do this to him and then tell him that we want him to work with us on a new bill.
That's what it is.
I mean, we told the teamsters that we've got to find an answer to this thing, but we've got to find a better answer.
And Meany knows that, too.
Meany doesn't think the Railroad Act is worth a damn.
No, that's right.
He thinks it's terrible.
so but you see that's the point that we're working on a new piece of legislation here something that will correct this thing so that we can work it out well i wrote chastity for buchanan some answers for you to use if you're asked about it and i think you can knock it down in such a way that well i doubt if it will be come up to these people are i mean the press people are so damn they they they are rather limited in their thing that they do we'll just hit it out of the park but but the point is i want
I'm not going to see the packet.
I don't want to get involved in that.
I'm not going to see any senator on a thing like that.
But what has to happen, Chuck, is that the people from the cabinet and so forth have got to take the responsibility for going and working on such things right away, right away, you see.
Knock it right down and not send up an assistant secretary.
No, that's what I mean.
He's a great guy, but he just does not have the political... No, that's
that you need.
I mean, that was so obvious how to handle it.
Timmons, Bill actually thought he had it fairly well handled also, I must say.
Wood is a fellow who I don't think has ever been on national television.
He certainly had a moment of glory.
So an opportunity.
Well, that's all right.
But now we've got to get him to calm down.
I don't care what he said up to this point.
It isn't going to be harmful over a lasting period of time.
And also, let's face it, who does it hurt?
It hurts us with the people that have given us a goddamn little support, our own business friends.
Let's face it.
When have we heard from these people?
When have we heard from the railroad people?
When have we heard from the
uh the well basically the truckers when we heard from many people never never never they never support us on vietnam they never support us on defense they never support us in helping you know what i mean it's worse than that mr president on the on this particular piece of legislation they opposed it they were against it too sure they came in and said we don't like this we don't want to be they don't want compulsory arbitration either no but he wants the goddamn government this is a labor dispute that's just so elementary the only people that want it
uh and we had a pretty good issue with the farmers now when there was the point is that when there was a dark strike going on we were able to say that the farmers aren't going to worry about it now because there is no strike well not only that but we're throwing grain all over the canadian world they couldn't care less about this also our good relations with unions are making it possible to sell the grain that's the important thing
That's so basic.
Has that all worked out?
No, there's nothing falling between the stools on the Russian grain ship.
Oh, no, sir.
Keldon has totally controlled that for us.
And Gleason.
And God bless them.
They've done a complete turnaround on that.
You know, the fascinating thing is that, and this is another point I tried to make to Hudson, it's been the cooperation of the very unions involved, the longshoremen,
teamsters and uh operating engineers and seafood that have made possibly his grand ship and so you're not going to now cram something down their throats that is totally anathema to them and it's just as schultz said that bill was the most valuable weapon we had during the period that we were fighting all of these dark strikes now that we haven't got that problem it's the most valuable weapon we have to get the cooperation of labor so
It's a point we can...
I wasn't a bit disturbed by the one-day story because... Yeah, I know.
Well, anyway, just so that they understand that they have to go so that Packwood doesn't go off on some vendetta.
Well, I think we can get Packwood back on.
He'll understand the merits of it as well.
He just got himself deposed, and he was dealing with an abrasive Jew who doesn't know how to handle people well, and that was...
That was the only place it fell between the cracks.
Of course, what the press has not figured out, which is a hell of a lot more significant than the Teamsters, which we, frankly, we would have gotten them anyway.
The only thing that that enabled us to do was to get the West Coast Teamsters, who were powerful, Heiner Mohn and his group.
But what the jackass press has missed is that this was a number one issue with George Meany.
Of course.
And I think that, frankly, I think that opened the door for Schultz to go in and be
as warmly received as he was, because maybe he mentioned that three times in the first meeting.
And it had already broken in the press a week earlier.
You know, we leaked it out a week earlier just so we'd lay the foundation for it.
And most of the consideration was directed at the AFL-CIO, not at the team.
But these press fellows aren't smart enough to see that either.
That's just as well.
We'll come through that one, all right?
I got another subject, Mr. President.
I got the related subject.
I got the latest AFL-CIO news, and they took the evil speech at the convention.
I don't know whether you saw that, the seconding nomination of Jackson, and just ran it full page, half of the front page of the AFL-CIO news.
Whose was that?
Able.
I have you Able.
Oh, yes, yes.
I heard about Able's speech.
Oh, my God, what a speech that is.
It's brilliantly written.
It's a Wattenberg speech.
And it's not reprinted in full.
Two columns wide, right down the front of the page of the AFL-CIO News has gone out this week.
I guess they go to about 100,000 people.
But it just shows you that the intensity of that ceiling is not abating in the slightest.
They are...
I mean, that speech cuts McGovern as hard as anything that I've seen.
That's good.
So the labor... the labor fellows, I think we've...
I think if we can...
They constantly got to keep working on them, be sure they don't backslide.
Yeah, I've sent you in a recommendation that you call us and just put a little bit of heat on them because...
Right now, there's two or three international unions that he can get if he will get moving, and Bill's great with them.
It's just that he's got to understand that this is the most important thing he can do.
That's right.
Right now, politics is the one that's settling the railway firemen's dispute.
That'll keep until next year.
Get out now and get political.
And I had lunch with Bill, and he wants to do it, but he just has to understand that that's his A, number one priority.
Yeah.
I have all the, also on yet another subject, I've received all the polling data from Becker for all of the New England.
Oh, yeah.
It's extremely interesting.
He confirms the national trends.
When was this taken?
What period?
Well, all of this was taken during, let's see, right up through June.
And it's, well, July.
Here's one in July.
Massachusetts is the end of June, 49, 39, approval or disapproval.
Rhode Island was the end of June, 58, approved, 33, disapproved.
It has you carrying Rhode Island quite comfortably.
It has you carrying Connecticut in a landslide.
and, of course, the three northern states with waterways.
I think we'll pick up, if we come anywhere near those, it has you neck and neck in Massachusetts, you know.
I think if we come anywhere near this kind of data, and Becker has always been right on the target, we'll pick up some health seats up there and...
Yeah.
We sure ought to get Rhode Island.
I think we'll sweep the state out.
No, I meant the Senate seat.
Oh, yeah, we'll do that, J.P. And the other question is whether you could get New Hampshire, isn't it?
Yes.
And it depends.
Even Wes ought to be able to win that, shouldn't he?
Yeah, I think the way you're going to carry the state is.
If Wes can just hang on and not just be a total...
captain well he doesn't have to do much other than keep the republican vote intact in other words the thing west is always done is to fracture the local republicans if he just will almost if god if i were running up there this year i would just go around and see everybody and keep a low profile and say he supports the president and hang on to nixon that's right that's right in fact
If a lot of these people around the country would do that, the weaker candidates.
Now, you don't do that in the case of a Percy.
He'll run better than we do in Illinois.
But although Percy's got to watch his step just a little, I mean, he's got to be clever enough not to lose the right.
But he's so far ahead in Illinois that he's no problem.
I would think he would be.
Yeah, well, he gets both.
He gets the benefit of both.
It isn't right that he does, but he does.
Kuczynski's comments I thought were interesting in that survey this morning in the Post.
What did he say?
Well, he said the goddamn state is a...
I forgot exactly how he put it, but the impression was that the state was a runaway at the moment for... against McGovern.
Let's see what he did say, because it was kind of interesting, I thought.
Interesting because of that Shapiro poll that came out earlier this week, which was a...
Shake.
Here, if the election were held today...
This is Pachinski.
If the election were held today, it would be a disaster for the Democratic Party in Illinois, from the White House to the courthouse.
But, he said, McGovern has three and a half months to mend fences, moderate his position, build an organization, and get out the young, while, quote, maintaining his anti-establishment stance, providing a choice, fresh and unfettered.
I think somebody wrote that last part for Kaczynski, because he's never said anything that...
He doesn't know what unfettered means.
I'm sure he's never used the word before.
I'm sure the first part of it was spontaneous.
It would be a disaster from the White House to the Courthouse in Illinois.
They're getting sort of a little bit of their business as a fresh choice and so forth.
All of this jockeying around with his party stuff is beginning to...
It rather blurs that image.
Oh, yeah.
He'll go on.
I predict he'll go on this program and all of his people.
Thank God nobody listens to these programs except the people that are already made up their minds.
But he'll go on and he'll really reassure them on all these things.
I'll lay you money.
They won't have any good questioner.
I'll lay you money.
Well, they may not.
I'll throw up softballs.
Things to let him get well on.
Yeah, I think that's right.
You're right on that.
But the real question is whether he can have it both ways.
Conley and I talked about that yesterday.
He's got a different situation than anybody's ever had before.
He is trying to have it both ways, and I don't know whether you can succeed in politics that way.
You can't, on the one hand, be arguing that you're the anti-establishment candidate, and on the other hand, breaking your neck to get the union approval.
You just can't do it.
You'll end up with neither, really.
You see, Goldwater didn't... Goldwater never got himself in that position.
Goldwater...
I'll say not.
He stayed pure.
He said, I'd rather be right... That's right.
...than elected, and that's the way it turned out.
That's the way it turned out.
He's trying to walk both sides of the street now.
I don't know what he does.
If he's able to pull that off, even with all the help he'll have from the media...
He's got a lot more talent than anything I've seen.
You know, Conley's likely to get a question on this debate thing today, but he'll handle it well, I'm sure.
Oh, yeah.
He'll just say, well, that beast is foolish.
Yeah, I guess I don't even think I need to know that.
No, don't.
I wouldn't call him.
He needs to, well...
I might call Christian.
You might call Christian and say that McGregor's view represents mine, just so he knows, because I had indicated I wasn't going to decide until later, but just say McGregor's views represent mine.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
In case it comes up that the president, if he's asked, will say, well, McGregor's views are the same there, represent mine.
Because McGregor said it well.
I don't know what he said, but I remember I told Bob to have him say it.
No, it was very good.
He talked about the sensitive data, the sensitive matters that you're working on.
Well, and the fact that you don't need a debate, the choices, the idea that the differences between these two candidates are so wide, so great, that you don't need a debate to point up the differences.
Yeah, no, McGregor's answers were quite good.
It's carried in the body of the story.
Right.
And did he get in the point that McGovern had voted against it before?
I didn't see that.
He may have gotten it in, but they just...
He may not have used it.
I...
The Post did not use it.
Well, why don't you... Conley may not know that.
Why don't you check that fact again?
About him voting against it?
Yes.
Yeah.
I know he did.
I mean, I remember reading the story, but, you know, we should be sure that...
I think he did.
There were three candidates all voted against repealing 315 in 1964, but be sure it's checked before you give it to Christian.
You must never get Conley in a position...
Anybody in a position where they have wrong facts.
I think my recollection is, though, that that's true.
Yeah, in case it comes up, that's a way Conley can really shaft them.
That's for sure that he didn't vote against it last year also because...
This is the only year that matters.
I mean, the real test is 64.
Yeah.
When they were in, he said no.
That's right, of course, of course.
See, that's the test.
We were pushing to get it repealed, yeah.
That's right.
water was pushing to get it repealed say yeah i would go like that i'm sure you think this program is on at one o'clock then huh okay well i'll turn around yes sir i think i'm sure that's it you might have the aids office if there's any change i would try yeah just left the left the aids office no if it's just one o'clock on uh washington i know that channel four okay well i'm gonna watch it because conley will expect me to but i'm not gonna watch the others okay good thank you