Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 137 › Conversation 137-012

Nixon phone call with Ehrlichman on George Romney and Richard Van Dusen

Sunday, August 13, 1972 · 9:53 AM–10:02 AM ET · Camp David Study Table · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation137-012 on Tape 137StartSunday, August 13, 1972 at 9:53 AMEndSunday, August 13, 1972 at 10:02 AMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 137-012 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discussed the sensitive management of HUD Secretary George Romney's resignation and the potential appointment of Richard Van Dusen as his successor. They also strategized to exploit a Virgin Islands financial scandal involving George McGovern's supporters by leaking information to journalist Clark Mollenhoff. Finally, Nixon directed Ehrlichman to assemble a team, potentially involving Murray Chotiner, to conduct opposition research and identify compromising information on McGovern's major financial donors and associates.

  • George Romney
  • Richard Van Dusen
  • McGovern supporters
  • Opposition research
  • Virgin Islands financial scandal
  • Clark Mollenhoff

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I was talking to Bob and mentioning the Romney thing.
I think it's sort of what you would expect, you know, he'd sort of leak out stuff and so forth.
But I think the best way to handle him is just to be very much above it and not to get involved in it.
And who did what to whom and that sort of thing.
Mainly not to make that much out of it.
just no comment everything what do you think I agree with that and then also but I do think this I think with Van Dusen I would quickly develop a very close individual relationship with that he's an intelligent man he's probably awfully I mean privately quite quite distressed at the way he's you know I mean he's probably would be delighted to get out from another another Romney I think that's I think that's right and so I just develop it that way good with Romney I would just act as if nothing
now the only thing I was thinking in view of the way he's popping off you know and so forth do you think you should tell him about the Van Dusen thing or or how should it be done well we do I have no desire we can let Van Dusen tell him sure well that'd be pretty good that Van Dusen well who's Van Dusen tell him told him offered it maybe I have to tell Van Dusen yeah I think that might be a good idea
But let me see, does that irritate him more?
No.
No, there's an implication that he favored Van Dusen, I suppose, isn't there?
I think so.
I think that's a reasonable assumption.
Yeah, I think if you were to call Van Dusen today and have a very brief conversation with him, that that would top anything that I said.
Where is he?
He's up in Duluth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he is already prepared for it, isn't he?
Right.
And I could just tell him that I'll tell him to handle it with Romney.
I just said that he's going to leave.
Just let nature take its course.
I think he'll tell Romney when he gets there.
We're going to leave.
And I said, well, I think the problem with not telling Romney is that I don't want to have another talk with him.
That's my problem.
Sure.
Let me think.
You know what I mean?
It's just because it might change his mind.
Right.
You know, you never know about these things.
He'd probably be surprised that we didn't beg him to stay on.
But I didn't.
Well, I can call him in the ordinary course of business.
Cap's got to call him on Monday.
He'd be talking to him.
Well, one of us can.
Well, do you think it would be better if I didn't?
No, no, no, no, no.
I'm asking you.
I mean, I don't want you to put you in his spot.
Oh, that's no problem.
Well, in view of the fact that he's, you know, that he's sort of said he had a problem.
Well, I think it's just as well.
You could just call him and say that we've presently felt that for continuity's purpose.
I don't know that I need to, maybe we ought to raise the Van Dusen thing to my level at this point.
Let me put it this way.
Unless you think it's going to mean a lot, I don't mind calling it.
Not necessary in order to get him.
He's aboard.
I'd simply say that we, what I meant is that Hal Romney's always saying, well,
Everybody ought to call him, then he tells them and all that.
See what I mean?
We won't do that this time.
That's what I meant.
I just sort of felt that it looked like, well, why didn't we have him tell them?
Don't worry about that.
So why don't we just do it this way, that you just say that...
Let's leave it that that's the way it's going to be.
I'm trying to engineer a different letter of resignation.
I talked it over with Van Dusen because the first part of the letter he sent you was very, very self-serving and indicated that you're indifferent and so on and so forth.
Oh, I told him there had to be a different one.
Good.
No, I told him.
I said I wanted to write a different one.
All right.
And one in which he said that he had completed that, where he brags about what he's done.
Good.
Housing is good and so forth and so on.
Oh, no, no, that's the way it should be.
All right.
That I feel that I can serve in a private capacity.
I support your reelection.
Doubt must be in it.
And so forth and so on.
Good.
and where he doesn't put any of the whining around it.
Good.
None of the whining could be in there.
I'm not going to set it in there.
Well, we just have no comment on the rest of this stuff.
And I'll tell him, I think I'll talk to him today and tell him it's an unfortunate story and that I won't have any comment on it.
Well, I'd get in a hassle with him.
No, I don't think I will.
I wouldn't intend to.
No, what I meant is, an unfortunate story may not fit.
I'd simply, I think maybe just tell him that...
Why don't you tell them the day that the President felt that the best way to handle this thing was since Van Dusen had been loyal and since the President knew that he was Romney's choice.
Just put it that way.
Yeah.
Knew he was Romney's choice, because Romney did say, I was thinking of waiting.
He threw one little thing in the conversation until Van Dusen got back.
So the President assumed, actually, it was your choice that...
going to ask Van Dusen to take on as the secretary.
Don't say that it's acting or anything.
All right.
And we thought he'd be pleased to know that.
All right.
And Van Dusen.
And you could say, well, have you offered to him and so forth?
And then I could say,
Well, we've implied that it, well, let's see, or what do you want to say?
We've explored it.
How about this?
Yeah, it's explored, and he's indicated that he would be open to it for the balance of the year only, and that we would appreciate it if he, Romney, when he discussed it with Van Dusen, would put his blessing on it.
How would that be?
Fine.
That gets at it in a subtle way.
Fine.
Okay.
Very good.
What else is new in here?
Well, not a whole lot.
Got through the Kimmelman file last night.
Nothing in it I think you can use.
Well, I don't know.
I don't know.
There may be an awful lot of McGovern's people who are involved in this Virgin Islands scandal.
And it's Udall and a fellow named Halpern and Kimmelman and Kimmelman's father-in-law, a fellow named Kessel.
I've got a scandal.
Well, it's a deal where Stuart Udall, several months before he left as Secretary of the Interior, formed a partnership with these people, and one of them was given a $550,000 contract to do some work in the Virgin Islands.
Well, I've got a good idea.
Isn't it about time we called on Clark Mullinoff to do something and give him the whole file?
Well, I think he could make something out of this.
That's what I mean.
Yeah.
And let him go out and say... One thing I want to cover, I want to talk to Kleindienst about why the Justice Department never prosecuted.
Well, hell.
Meanwhile, we were in.
Yeah.
Well, you know damn well why.
Well, but that's an angle, you see, that's available to Mollenhoff, and I want to find out what the answer to that is.
The answer is we didn't want to be political.
but now we want to be politically exposed.
I don't know.
I don't either.
I want to check it, and I'll talk to Dick today and see what he says about it.
Yeah.
Now, the other thing that occurred to me that I want you to do, I don't really, I don't know, I suppose you, I've told Holloman to do it, but I don't know if he's had time, but remember I've indicated that we should take all of the major McGovern supporters and or financial contributors.
I mean the 50 G's or something like that.
And process them.
Exactly.
And see who they are.
Look, they go after everything from Mulcahy to Robozo to Bob Oppenall.
You know what I mean?
Every one of ours.
Now, my point is, who are McGovern's friends?
Who are his major supporters?
Are they bad guys, good guys?
No, he's gone.
The only thing I think has been done is Jerry Rubin.
No, there must be others.
Right.
Have you done anything on that?
No, but it shouldn't be too hard to put a catalog together and do it from your donors.
Could you put a very, very smart team of about three guys on it?
Sure.
Say there's nothing more important.
Get the major—it isn't just donors.
Donors are important, but—
Maybe he's got a, you know, a friend who is close to him publicly.
I get you.
And I'd go right down the line.
All right.
Because, you know, everybody has got somebody in there who's a bad apple.
Right.
You know, this is the kind of thing Murray's awfully good at.
All right.
All right.
That's very good.
Once you give him that to do, and then he says, I need this file and this file and this file.
Yeah.
Give him a couple of young guys to work with him on it.
Yeah.
But I think it's a nice project.
well do you think murray be all right for that sure sure provided he doesn't do anything public right this would be research it'd be a very good one to research it but then he researches it but my point is then how does he use the government thing you see you've got to have somebody in government well i can give him a i can give him a counterpart yeah you see my point sure i'm sure i could look say
say, I want to look over all these people who were the bad ones.
Without it, he isn't.
I don't want him to be soft on the Jews.
That's one problem.
But he won't, I don't think.
I don't think Murray will.
But you see, I think you may have some here.
On the Kimmelman thing, or anything like that, don't overlook Molinoff.
He'll take us on, and he'll take the others on.
But we'll just say this file was turned up, and
And we don't need to say that we suppressed the damn thing, but the file is there.
I think the fact it didn't come out doesn't mean much, a hell of a lot.
I mean, here's a good snooping reporter that finds something on Mr. Kimmelman.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Let me touch base with...
The main thing, it has to come fairly soon.
Right.
Because if it comes after the 1st of October, then it's just a last-minute spear, and then I'll say, why didn't we do it?
Yeah.
but uh if you would follow through here put a team john on both of these things okay i told holloman maybe he's asked him what he's done all right no i said i want to know what i want a list of all their contributors and supporters and i want some investigations made okay i'll ask him run it down right right all right

NARA Description

On August 13, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:53 am to 10:02 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 137-012 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 137-12

Date: August 13, 1972
Time: 9:53 am - 10:02 am
Location: Camp David Study Table

John D. Ehrlichman talked with the President.

     George W. Romney
         -Possible resignation
               -Leak
                     -The President's conversation with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                     -Strategy in dealing with story
                          -Richard C. Van Dusen
                                 -The President's possible telephone call
                                       -Van Dusen’s schedule
                                            -Duluth, Iowa
               -Forthcoming call from Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
               -Forthcoming call from Ehrlichman
               -Van Dusen
               -Letter of resignation
                     -Content
                          -The President’s view
                                 -Housing
                                 -The President's re-election
               -Forthcoming call from Ehrlichman
                     -Van Dusen
                          -Possible appointment as Department of Housing and Urban
                                 Development [HUD] secretary

     Partnership involving a Virgin Islands financial plan
          -George S. McGovern supporters

                -Henry L. Kimelman
                     -Stewart Udall
                     -Lawrence Halprin
                     -Sidney Kessler ["Kessell"]
                     -Udall
          -Possible public relations impact
                -Clark R. Mollenhoff
          -Question of a possible Justice Department prosecution
                -Richard G. Kleindienst
                     -John N. Mitchell

     Analysis of McGovern's major supporters
         -Need for identification
                -Haldeman
         -Adverse actions by the Democrats against the President's supporters
                -John Mulcahy
                -Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo
                -Robert H. Abplanalp
         -Need for identification
                -Jerry Rubin
         -Possible assignment of task
                -Murray M. Chotiner
                      -Possible use of government files
                      -Possible assistants
                      -Possible attitude toward Jews

     Partnership involving a Virgin Islands financial plan
          -Kimelman
                -Use of Mollenhoff

     The President's conversation with Haldeman
          -List of McGovern supporters

Also recorded on August 13, 1972

  • 137-010 9:38 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:38 am to 9:45 am.
  • 199-003 9:38 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 9:38 am to 9:45 am.
  • 199-004 9:45 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon, Julie Nixon Eisenhower, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:45 am and 9:53 am.
  • 137-011 9:53 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 9:53 am.
  • 199-005 9:53 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at 9:53 am.
  • 199-006 9:53 AM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 9:53 am to 10:02 am.
  • 137-013 10:02 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:02 am and 10:11 am.
  • 199-007 10:02 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:02 am and 10:11 am.

All 29 conversations from August 13, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 137-012, August 13, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/137-012 (accessed October 12, 2026).