Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 138 › Conversation 138-005
Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Vietnam War and Firebase Bastogne
Saturday, July 29, 1972 · 10:09 AM–10:18 AM ET · Camp David Study Table · 4 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed the military situation in Vietnam, focusing on defensive maneuvers near Firebase Birmingham and the administration's frustration with media coverage regarding the bombing of dikes. They also addressed concerns over unauthorized public comments made by trade negotiator William D. Eberle regarding upcoming negotiations with Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka. Nixon instructed Kissinger to investigate the status of these trade talks and to better prepare for the summit to ensure substantive results.
- Vietnam War
- Firebase Bastogne
- North Vietnamese dikes
- Trade negotiations
- Japan
- Kakuei Tanaka
- William D. Eberle
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Hello, Mr. President.
Well, Henry, what's new today?
There aren't any major developments in the foreign field.
There seemed to be quite a bit of hard fighting in the Vietnam area, I noticed from the news.
There's not fighting in Military Region 1, but my view is that whatever fighting they do now, they won't do two months from now.
Sure.
But no major changes.
There's no fighting outside of Military Region 1.
So none of any consequence.
But they haven't launched their real attacks yet.
I guess that fire base, Bastogne, getting that gives them a little bit, it's a minute too early.
But that fire base, Bastogne, they always expect it to give up.
Well, they'll make a minor effort to regain it, but that was never intended to be held seriously.
And they just moved off a few miles.
Sure.
The real defense is about four miles further back in Firebase, Birmingham.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Well, the Dyke story, I guess, got out all right.
The Dyke story got out all right.
Of course, the Washington Post put a dirty headline on it.
Oh, God, unbelievable.
I saw that.
The New York Times put a fair headline.
The New York Times played it fairly.
We couldn't complain about that.
But the Post is just...
Let me tell you, I don't think that the country gives one damn about these guys.
If they ever get it, if they push it any further, and I'll say, now look, if their choice comes, if they put anti-aircraft guns on there and start shooting down American planes, of course we're not going to risk American pilots for such guns.
And we have to consider the thing also after November anyway.
I wouldn't say that.
That's right.
We may have to take them out.
I think after November we must do what it takes to end this war.
That's right.
We're not going to hesitate about anything.
We can't go through another two years.
We're saying the right things now, but that's all.
It's got to be, got to use the force that is necessary, and we have no question about using it.
Incidentally, one story I wanted to ask you about to see if we were to do anything.
I noticed Eberle made a bearish comment about the trade negotiations in Japan, saying that they didn't look too good right at the moment or progress was disappointing.
Are you watching that thing?
Is there anything there we should know about?
The main thing I really want to...
I don't want that...
meeting with Tanaka to come off and we labor and produce a mouse.
I just hope that maybe this is part of the strategy to wait.
But I don't know.
Is there anything there that we should know?
Let me check on that.
I don't know that we have.
Yeah.
Well, he shouldn't really.
I don't know.
I think we can produce.
He shouldn't really, Henry, Everly, really.
on admission like this should not be making comments day-to-day as to how it's going.
Absolutely not.
Don't you agree?
He's inexperienced.
Yeah.
And, well, he works hard and he does well, but my point is all of our people have got to learn the lesson of that if you don't have to talk to the press every time they ask and you don't give them anything, you'd say, well, look, I'm just not going to talk about these negotiations.
Absolutely.
Particularly on this one because, you know, they've had all this talk about this billion-dollar deal now and, boy, we want to get it.
well or some kind of a deal at least i think we can i think i should send one of my staff men who was with me when i talked to tanaka how to talk to him to see what we can prepare nobody's with eberly huh none of your staff people maybe that's a good idea to uh because we we want to do this trade thing right and uh
might send a man out and to work well working with the ambassadors all for us but they could call they could call on tanaka trust the ambassador in my mind right see what we can get in preparing this i think we should get it well prepared well we'll get it done next week okay henry bye right bye
NARA Description
On July 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 10:09 am to 10:18 am. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 138-005 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 138-5
Date: July 29, 1972
Time: 10:09 am - 10:18 am
Location: Camp David Study Table
The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.
[See Conversation No. 198-6]
Vietnam
-Military activity
-Military Region I
-Firebase Bastogne
-Firebase Birmingham
-Dikes
-Bombing
-Washington Post
-New York Times
-Popular opinion
-Anti-aircraft guns
-1972 campaign
-US military action
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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 5m 3s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
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Japanese trade negotiations
-Progress
-William D. Eberle's comments
-The President's schedule
-Kakuei Tanaka
-Eberle
-Comments
-Advisability
-Press
-Kissinger's staff
-US Ambassador [Robert S. Ingersoll]Also recorded on July 29, 1972
- 138-001 8:29 PM · 14 sec — Unknown person(s) and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 8:29 pm on July 28, 1972 and 9:54 am on July 29, 1972.
- 198-001 8:30 AM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:30 am and 9:54 am.
- 138-006 9:00 AM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:00 am and 10:25 am.
- 138-003 9:54 AM · 21 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:54 am to 10:07 am.
- 138-004 10:07 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 10:07 am and 10:09 am.
- 198-008 10:18 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 10:18 am on July 29, 1972 and 10:25 am on July 30, 1972.
- 138-007 10:25 AM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 10:25 am.
- 138-008 10:28 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 10:28 am.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 138-005, July 29, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/138-005 (accessed October 12, 2026).