Conversation 140-023

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Hello?

Sir, Mr. Holloman for you?

Yeah.

Go ahead, please.

then of course she i hadn't heard that she says wasn't it really terrible about what those demonstrators did the platform and i said no she said well they went out and vomited into the shrubbery did you hear about that no the demonstrators did yeah there were about 10 of them couldn't get into the rules committee meeting and when they didn't they went out and vomited into the shrubbery how did they do that well you know you can vomit you know swallow something

Jack says, Jesus, that's incredible.

That's good.

It is unbelievable.

That's unbelievable.

That's all right.

I told Julia, I said, doesn't hurt us a bit.

Doesn't hurt us a bit.

Just put McGovern buttons on.

Well, that operation is on, isn't it?

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yes, I do, and it is.

Good.

Very definitely.

A lot of McGovern buttons on these clowns.

I just hope it's being done subtly enough that it's on.

That's right.

Well, it should be.

It doesn't have to be too damn subtle.

Yeah.

Just have them out there handing them out.

Yeah.

That's what you do.

Yeah.

Well, on another thing, first, he said that Tom Johnson is planning to leave Lyndon Johnson and wants to come back to Washington.

He's interested in a government post.

Give him one.

I told John we, of course, would.

We'd be delighted to have him.

He's a first-class man.

And that starts us with our, that would be a very good example of our open-door policy, Bob.

Well, John may want to keep him in his organization until after the election.

Well, he can make an absolutely strict commitment.

I told him that.

Fine.

I said there was no question he's exactly the kind of man we want to bring in, so there'd be no question.

On the Vietnam thing, he said that he feels that somebody at this point should spell this thing out.

The bringing together of McGovern, screw-up, Salinger, Shriver, Ramsey Clark.

Sort of a respect that now you're talking.

In other words, a white paper on it.

Well, that's sort of the way I laid it out to him, is that we have all these things.

Also, going back to his earlier screw-up, and the interference in foreign policy, and start with the Truman quote.

I would start with the Truman quote, and I'd say, then I'd start with the Truman quote, if I could suggest.

And second, the Nixon quote in 68, where I said I would, and it's in my acceptance speech, you know, we will say nothing that might undercut the peace prospects.

And in all of his travels abroad, he never said a word.

And other Republicans didn't.

Now,

Here is the conduct of McGovern in this much.

And with negotiations very active, they're doing this.

Here is the record.

And just low key, and no rhetoric.

No charge of unpatriotic thing, but just say, God damn it, this is just wrong.

Okay, now, his view is that at this point, this should not be the president.

It should not be Rogers.

It should not be the vice president.

I didn't give these names.

He cited these.

He said it should be done without characterizing McGovern and without attacking him for it at this point.

It should not be mean.

And he said maybe it should be Jerry Ford or maybe it should be one of your people on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

He said, it definitely should not be Reagan or anybody that people would expect to do it.

He said, maybe Margaret Smith or George Aiken or somebody like that.

But he said, it should be done with sadness and resignation.

All right, how about Aiken?

And just say, it's just unbelievable that this man would do this.

And his point is...

I tell you, Margaret Smith wouldn't be bad.

You know, her declaration of conscience kind of thing.

His point is...

He said, we should set up the target now, but not hit it.

Yeah.

Good.

He said, what you need now is to bring it into focus.

Set up the target, pull all these strings together, but don't hit it hard.

Just have it there so you can hit it later.

And he said, the thing you've got to realize is the war is not hurting you.

It's helping.

He doesn't think so, but we don't know.

Well, he feels very strongly that way.

And he says, look at it this way.

If you didn't have the war, it'd be meat prices.

And you wouldn't.

That's right.

That's my point.

And you wouldn't have the opposition screwing up.

You wouldn't have Ramsey Clark screwing up and Sergeant Shriver and all that.

And he said, we want to keep the issue focused on Vietnam.

It's to our benefit, because we're working for peace there, and they're screwing things up there.

And he said, the way to do it... On the other hand, it does point up our failure.

That is, in which I...

I raised that.

He said, I don't...

I don't admit an acceptance speech.

I hit that hard.

I'm just going to say I'm disappointed.

I'm just sorry, but...

We're doing our best, and we'll continue to.

Well, he says that's no problem because you are getting somewhere, and all the polls say that you're doing what has been.

One of your strengths, that's right.

And don't poll it anymore.

There's no reason to anymore.

Well, the pollsters will poll it.

We can't stop them.

I mean, we don't need to bother going into that excruciating issue thing now.

I mean, about the thing we really need to keep up on are some of the more local issues.

He says that probably you should try to do it at the convention, along the lines he's talking about, rather than waiting until afterwards.

Then he said, maybe one of your good governors ought to do it.

No, no, they don't understand it.

How about if they read the speech?

If you get a guy who can read the speech, it doesn't matter whether he understands it.

Well, why don't you, how about a Meraki do it?

No, no, he's going to introduce me.

Yeah, he can't do it.

I mean, nominate.

How about, frankly, Margaret Smith sounds awfully good if she would do it.

Or you could check around to see on the Foreign Relations.

Well, he raised another point.

He said maybe he should do it at the VFW on Monday.

Well, that I'd like.

Rather than at the Republican Convention.

I think that would be...

That would be good, and then, but we should write it for him so as to keep the rhetoric down, you know.

Yeah.

Well, we would, and he understands.

I think that's the best.

I really do.

If he bid on that at all.

I was about to lob it out, and then I decided.

He bid on that at all.

I wouldn't say anything.

Just say that I don't feel, frankly, that it ought to be done in a partisan format to begin with.

Second, that I believe it could better come from a Democrat.

And third, that I think it would really be a very great shift.

They'll expect him to make sort of a slashing thing, but he could put it in terms of more in sorrow than in anger along the lines.

And he said, I just want to talk about bipartisanship in foreign policy without indicating why he's for Nixon.

and say, and then, you know, the usual lines.

God damn it, there's somebody over there that's going to read one of my veteran speeches one day and then write it with that tone, you know, that, you know what I mean.

See, the VFW is mostly Democratic.

And then he quotes Truman, and then he quotes that, and then he says, here's what's happening, and here's what the war.

And he says, I think that's wrong.

I think that's wrong.

Now, I think he's by far the best person to do it, by far the best.

And also, I like the idea of his getting involved in foreign policy for other reasons.

Well, I had concluded he was the best one to do it, but decided I better not raise it with him in the first conversation that I'd wait and call him back.

Then he raised it himself.

But ask him if he wants to tell him that they've done this.

Who's doing it?

Haig is working on the thing.

Well, I'm going to call them now and see what we've got.

I'm not sure what they're all cranked up, but I don't know what they've got.

Haig can get the facts.

But then on the speech writing, let's see who's the one here that can do that.

Well, Bakhtian's the one that worked on his speech.

On Connolly's?

Yeah.

Well, let him work on that.

Bakhtian understands us, the rhetoric, and can read back on mine and note the changes I made to take all the partisanship out.

But I think Connolly's by far the best.

Let's have bipartisanship.

Let's don't play politics with peace.

That should be the title of his speech.

Let's don't play partisan politics with peace.

You know what I mean?

And then pointing out, congratulating the VFW, who most of them are Democrats.

They support Republicans or Democrats.

They support America.

And then they come on, let's look at this problem.

It's a terribly excruciating problem.

And then, God damn it, he's honoring the changes.

I think that's the best one.

All right.

Now, the other thought they had was that because of the current nature of this, that Ron should hit McGovern.

I don't think he should.

No, no, no, no.

Ron says, I'm just not going to comment.

No, I want to keep Ron.

I want to keep the White House out of this now.

Right, good.

I want to keep Ron and all of Klein.

Klein can stay out of it, too.

Tell the White House spokesman they stay out of this damn thing.

That's just too close to us.

Okay.

I think particularly since it's being hit anyway, I mean, it's just cheap.

That said, I don't think we need it in a press conference kind of context.

Well, it's going to elevate it to the, say, President attacks.

Or a White House rushes out at McGovern.

The only thing I would suggest, just looking at the

Well, it's more than a little lie stuff.

I just wouldn't let him get away with that Hitler stuff.

I think that's so vicious.

McGregor did a good job on that yesterday.

Okay.

And got a ride on it.

And Chuck's got a bunch of people hitting that.

That's good.

We'll stay on that one.

I don't feel it.

But I don't think you want Ron doing that either.

I don't want Ron to say a word.

Right.

What I mean is, the purpose of this is defensive.

Right.

The purpose of this is that they're charging low road.

Right.

I want the charge and the words used that it's such a dirty, low road campaign, a campaign of slander, lies, and vilification.

server I'd hit him on that last night as a matter of fact about the other thing yeah on the basis that he said we expected McGovern to conduct a high-level moral campaign and he hasn't but you just say this is I want this to mean the idea of the low road let bull say that to open said tell them all that start hitting McGovern on a low road campaign well a figure better word a campaign of campaign of smear and fear

Slander, smear, and fear.

Yeah.

Okay.

I haven't heard from Ron, so I assume he didn't do anything about that bitch.

I haven't talked to him yet.

I understand.

There are many more important, but I just, more important for the moment,

But long term, I just want to be sure, though.

He will.

He's a guardian as to be put on her, so she doesn't get at anybody again.

Right.

And the other thing is that CBS is to be screwed with regard to the handle.

Got that.

And second, reward Barbara Wallace and Virginia Sherwood.

They are there.

Right.

With special interviews.

And don't give one to CBS.

Give them up and nothing to CBS.

Right.

Sure.

And that's the way I do it.

I can be very obvious about it.