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Conversation 140-058

TapeTape 140StartMonday, August 21, 1972 at 12:28 PMEndMonday, August 21, 1972 at 12:31 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table
AudioNARA Description

On August 21, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:28 pm to 12:31 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 140-058 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 140-58

Date: August 21, 1972
Time: 12:28 pm - 12:31 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

Henry A. Kissinger talked with the President.

[See Conversation No. 207-6]

     Hydrofoil presentation
         -The President's possible use
                -Timing
                     -Republican National Convention
                -Potomac River
                -Florida

     The President’s forthcoming acceptance speech
          -Draft evaders
                -Numbers
                     -Canada
          -US foreign relations
                -Europe
                -Asia
                -Latin America
                     -Alliance for Progress
                     -Caracas statement
                -Africa
          -Defense capacity of South Vietnam
                -US air power
                     -Public perception

     Anatoliy F. Dobrynin’s meeting with Kissinger
         -Vietnam
                -Le Duc Tho visit to Moscow
                     -Reception
                         -Politburo member
                                -Rank
                         -Leonid I. Brezhnev

                      (rev. Mar-02)

-North Vietnam
     -Expectation of concessions
-Soviet Union's intentions
     -US-Soviet relations
-People’s Republic of China [PRC]-US relations
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah.
Dr. Kissinger's on the line.
Hello.
Hello.
Did you have fun with the hydrofoil?
Yeah, it's really terrific.
I'm going to be interested in using it sometime.
I'll do it right after the convention.
They tell me the Potomac is really very good for it.
Well, I'm going to take it to Florida.
Yeah, that's very good.
Right, right.
I want to go over a couple of brief questions, if I can.
Certainly.
First, with regard to the—I'm just checking the numbers and things now—
I use the term hundreds of draft evaders.
Is it thousands or hundreds?
Certainly not thousands.
I think I could say hundreds and get away with it, couldn't I?
Absolutely.
All right, I'll just say hundreds, who at least have gone to Canada and that place.
I'm sure it's only hundreds.
But I think it's as well to say hundreds.
I don't want to say thousands, you see.
All right, fine.
Second point, you remember we had that...
You suggested a line in about standing by our Europe and Asia and so forth.
I put in a very good line on it.
And the point is, you said Europe and Asia, allies.
Shouldn't I say allies in Europe, Asia, and Latin America?
Or do we have allies in Latin America?
We don't strictly speaking have allies.
Let's don't call them that then.
But I don't mind having it in there.
Why don't we say Europe, Asia, and Latin America?
It can do no harm.
Yeah.
I mean, basically, we have the Alliance for Progress and the Statement of Caracas and all that sort of thing.
But I agree they're not allies.
But if you prefer not, we'll leave it out.
I just wonder if the Latins might not appreciate.
Why don't we just say our allies and friends?
That's right.
That would be the best.
I'd say our allies and friends in Europe, Asia.
I'm not going to mention Africa, good God, that's going too far.
Do you mind just saying Europe, Asia, and Latin America?
We have no allies in Africa.
Yeah, and very few friends.
Okay, I got it.
The final point is one that we discussed but that I come back to again.
Do you remember I said that regardless of how the negotiations come out,
that we now know by the way that the South Vietnamese have met the offensive of the enemy, that they have the capacity to defend themselves without the help of fighting men.
I wonder if that doesn't have the problem that with air power still going in, that it's an overstatement.
Yeah.
remember uh it is it's true the fighting men on the ground you see but we've already mentioned that and you remember i had it that they i said they will soon have the capacity well maybe we should put soon back in you see what i mean i know it's stronger the other way but it doesn't hurt it any to say soon because that uh because that really means well we'll be getting up pretty soon that's what i was really trying to say okay i'll put soon and okay henry
That's all I have.
Right, Mr. President.
I think it will be a very strong speech.
Dobrynin was very fascinating about Vietnam.
He said he wanted us to know they were really eager to get it settled.
Good.
Was he?
Good.
When Lee Duc To came through Moscow, he did see a Politburo member, but only the fifth one, number five, that Brezhnev and the others, even though they were there, wouldn't see him.
And they're playing it very stupidly.
They're still hoping we will make additional concessions.
yeah the russians are no no they know oh yeah but the russians want the damn thing settled i didn't ever think i don't think they ever did until we went over there but i think they do now but they did have ever since about april when they realized yeah was really risking their relations with us sure that's what i mean that's right no question as long as it would irritate us without
uh irritating that relations on bigger things it was okay but now it's that way around and frankly i think the chinese think the same thing no question they just don't want to get caught at it that's true of both of them okay henry thank you thank you very much
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