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Conversation 144-002

TapeTape 144StartTuesday, September 19, 1972 at 7:46 PMEndTuesday, September 19, 1972 at 8:10 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Recording deviceCamp David Study Table
AudioNARA Description

On September 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at Camp David from 7:46 pm to 8:10 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 144-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 144-2

Date: September 19, 1972
Time: 7:46 pm - 8:10 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation no. 212-4]

            Greetings

            Colson's schedule
                -Return from trip
                -Dinner
                -Swimming

                                       (rev. Feb-24)

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/18/2018.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[144-002-w001]
[Duration: 19m 51s]

      The President's earlier meeting with John B. Connally
             -Analysis
                     -Intuition and political instincts

      1972 campaign
             -The President's attack against George S. McGovern
                    -Pressure
                    -John B. Connally's reaction
             -Timing of attacks
             -George S. McGovern and upcoming speech on amnesty
             -George S. McGovern’s campaign
                    -Forthcoming appearance cancellation
                    -George S. McGovern writing a speech
                            -Buying television time
                                    -Position on amnesty
                                    -Defense proposal
             -George S. McGovern’s position on defense
                    -A panel
                    -The President's analysis
                    -George S. McGovern’s proposal of budget cuts
                            -Timing of the administration's response
                            -George S. McGovern’s position and the President's position
                    -The Nixon administration's response
                            -Melvin R. Laird
                                    -Type of response
                                            -Publicity
                                            -Information regarding defense
                                            -Information in the President's Legion speech
                                                   -Strength

                          (rev. Feb-24)

                                      -Air Force, missiles, aircraft carriers
                                      -Possible effect
       -Defense advertisement explaining the President's position
               -John B. Connally
               -Timing of releasing advertisement
       -Melvin R. Laird's response to George S. McGovern’s defense budget
               -Timing
                       -Thursday September 21, 1972
               -Melvin R. Laird's weekend appearance on Meet the Press
               -Coverage for the September 21, 1972 evening news
                               -Response to George S. McGovern
               -List of individuals
                       -Leftists
                       -Morton H. Halperin
                       -Leslie H. Gelb
-Daniel Ellsberg issue
       -George S. McGovern’s statements
               -Possible response by George Meany
               -Morton H. Halperin
-George S. McGovern’s position on defense
               -Response by administration
               -Timing
               -Statement
                       -Type
       -Charles W. Colson's analysis
               -George S. McGovern’s behavior
       -Cuts in budget
               -Result of US position in the world
-Responses to George S. McGovern’s defense budget statements
       -Morton H. Halperin
       -Leslie H. Gelb
       -John F. Lehman
               -Alexander M. Haig's staff and Henry A. Kissinger's staff
       -Paul C. Warnke
       -Herbert F. York
       -Clark M. Clifford
       -James M. Gavin
       -Senator William Proxmire

                        (rev. Feb-24)

-George S. McGovern’s campaign
      -Comparison to 1968 campaign for Senate
             -Type of campaign
-George S. McGovern’s public statement on defense budget
      -John B. Connally response
             -September 27, 1972 response
             -Type of response
             -Conversation between Charles W. Colson and John B. Connally
                     -John B. Connally's trip to New York September 20, 1972
      -George P. Shultz
             -Possible response to George S. McGovern
                     -Wage and price controls
                     -Type of response
      -Herbert Stein
             -Response to George S. McGovern
      -George W. Romney
      -John A. Volpe
      -George W. Romney
             -Responding to George S. McGovern
             -Candidate as governor
             -Housing market indications
      -Timing of George S. McGovern’s budget statement
             -Zero casualty report
             -Calls to Capitol Hill by Charles W. Colson on subject
-George S. McGovern’s campaign schedule for September 19, 1972
      -Type of day
             -Appearances in Chicago and Milwaukee
      -Parochial vs public school issue
             -Appearance before school groups
      -College appearances
             -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS] coverage
             -Bruce Morton
      -George S. McGovern’s motives
             -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS] coverage
      -Catholic Democrats for George S. McGovern
             -Cardinal in Philadelphia [John Cardinal Krol]
             -Democrat platform and the issue of parochial schools
             -Support by John Cardinal Krol for the President

                                 (rev. Feb-24)

                      -Support by Terence Cardinal Cooke for the President
             -George P. Shultz
                      -Building trades union
                              -Formation of committee
       -Support for the President

1972 campaign
       -Defense issue
              -Harris poll
                      -George S. McGovern’s actions
                      -Albert E. Sindlinger
              -Crosby S. Noyes and James J. Kilpatrick
                      -Newspaper coverage
                              -Columnists
                              -George S. McGovern’s standing with American public
                                      -Public reaction to George S. McGovern
                              -The liberals in America
                                      -George S. McGovern and the public
       -George S. McGovern’s position on Vietnam
       -George S. McGovern’s policies
                      -Reactions by public
       -George S. McGovern as a candidate
              -President’s opinion
              -Charles W. Colson's analysis
                      -Public's realization about George S. McGovern’s policies
       -Gallup poll on campaign
              -Results
       -The President's campaign
              -Charles W. Colson's analysis
                      -Leading in polls
                              -Albert E. Sindlinger
              -John B. Connally's reactions to Gallup Poll and the President's campaign
       -Gallup Poll results on George S. McGovern’s campaign
              -Turning point of campaign
                      -John B. Connally's reaction
       -George S. McGovern’s health
              -Rigorous campaigning
       -George S. McGovern’s campaign

                         (rev. Feb-24)

      -Support by Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
      -R. Sargent Shriver's campaigning
      -Return to District of Columbia
              -Press coverage by national television
      -The President's conversation with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
              -George S. McGovern’s appearance on television
                      -Results
                              -Crosby S. Noyes, Albert E. Sindlinger thesis
      -Problems with campaign
              -Parochial school issue
                      -Reactions by National Education Association [NEA]
                              -Type of position George S. McGovern is taking
                              -Idea of unconstitutionality
                              -George S. McGovern and public school issues
              -Charles W. Colson's analysis
                      -Trying to please everyone
              -National Education Association [NEA] reaction to the President
              -Charles W. Colson conversation with Albert E. Sindlinger
                      -George S. McGovern’s standing in the polls
                              -Gains vs losses
              -Albert E. Sindlinger and Louis Harris agreement
                      -Credibility of George S. McGovern
                              -Idea of trust
-George S. McGovern and the defense issue
      -Melvin R. Laird and his response
      -Earl L. Butz
      -Melvin R. Laird's position on defense
-Schedule
      -Melvin R. Laird on defense issue
      -William P. Rogers
      -John B. Connally on Face the Nation
              -Timing of appearances supporting the president
      -John B. Connally
              -Democrats on defense issue
-George S. McGovern’s campaign
      -Charles W. Colson's analysis
              -Television media
                      -Reactions toward George S. McGovern

                                        (rev. Feb-24)

*****************************************************************

            Public relations
                -George S. McGovern
                     -Position on amnesty
                          -Idea of middle of the road position
                -The President's position on amnesty
                     -Idea of paying the penalty
                          -After the war
                          -Stress on the word "penalty"
                -McGovern's position on amnesty
                     -George Meany's compendium

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 07/18/2018.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[144-002-w002]
[Duration: 2m 3s]

      1972 campaign
             -Sindlinger poll
                     -Gallup and Harris polls results
             -Poll results
                     -Re-running of poll results and effect on George S. McGovern’s campaign
                     -Reactions by George S. McGovern
                            -George E. Christian
                            -Idea of "save the party"
                     -Republican response
                            -Robert J. Dole
                            -Robert H. Finch
                                    -Reactions
                     -Result of survey
                            -Democratic support of George S. McGovern

                                       (rev. Feb-24)

                                   -Percentage

*****************************************************************
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello?
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Did you get home?
Yes, sir, I am.
Yeah, well, are you having dinner, I bet, huh?
No, I just got home and was out swelling a little bit to get some exercise.
That's good.
A little bit.
That's good.
What's his position and amnesty going to be, do we know?
Well, I would guess what he would have to do.
He can't possibly come over to our position because he would just totally lose the kids.
He can't afford to do that.
I think what he has to do is to try to take a middle-of-the-road position.
Say, well, they'll have to serve.
There'll be some form of national service required.
No, but we've got to be very hard on that, that anybody who's deserted his country must serve.
I mean, he's got to pay the penalty.
Use the word penalty.
We're not going to consider anything until the prisoner is at home and the war is over.
Well, he doesn't, but he says that too, doesn't he?
Well, he will say, yeah, but he'll say that I'm bringing them all home next spring and therefore here's what I'm doing.
Yeah, yeah, but we've got to say that even when they're all home and the war is over, they've got to pay the penalty for having deserted their country.
Yeah, pay the penalty is the line.
The penalty is the line, the penalty.
That's right.
He's said things in the past.
I mean, he's got them in this compendium that he's put together.
He's said things in the past that are just,
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
← 144-001144-003 →