Conversation 146-004

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Yes, sir, Mr. President.

Are they taking on the light wires?

No.

Romney did his thing.

He got a little tangled up, as George does at times, although he hit good and hard.

And I haven't had my report yet from how the Vice President did, but he should have been pretty well covered.

That's a good news story when he goes to South Dakota.

We got a good break on our welfare reform today, I think at least.

What was that?

What happened?

Well, they voted, in the Senate, they voted it down.

They voted down... Ribicoff.

Ribicoff, and they voted, well, they voted...

But they voted that down yesterday.

Well, they voted, actually, they voted to go for a trial pilot program, which the press, at least, and our Hill fellows say is probably the end of H.R.

1 in this session.

Yeah, so they voted for the Roth, that's, I think...

The Roth thing, right, the Roth amendment, the test.

Then they voted down that Stevenson thing, or whatever it was, and...

Yes, sir.

So 46 to 40 roll call to retain the existing system, but to run some pilot projects.

But I don't know whether it's, I don't know whether the reports that I've gotten are completely up to date, but if they are, it indicates that we're probably not going to get any bill, which is the best of all outcomes.

Oh, hell yes.

By far.

That's what I told Erlichman.

I said, for Christ's sakes, when he knows that, he said, we don't want any bill.

We know what we were talking about this morning, Mike, right, Stuart?

we give an inch on welfare we're dead yep totally people are against what we've already offered but that's why we don't talk about it much exactly the mood is so different today my god the uh the stuff we're getting in you know from various uh points around the country attitudes on welfare it's just as marvelous if they killed it I was just scared to death that they would clean it up in a hurry I don't know whether I guess they'll now try to go with at least that and try to hang and hang those other

titles two three and four on the debt ceiling on the yeah or maybe just have this I don't know well the whole thing will be tangled up in conference unless they want to give us a tough one to veto well we're going to veto the social security crap on the basis of increased payroll taxes sure I don't think that's I don't think that'll be a problem I really don't I think the the old folks have all gotten their increased checks today and they've gotten a

message from you, which has George McGovern climbing up the walls.

He's screaming.

Oh, Jesus, he's

little card that's in with every check saying President Nixon signed into law on such and such a date to this 20% increase passed by the Congress.

It's a fact.

Hasn't that always been done before?

Yes, sir.

Didn't Roosevelt do it?

Yes, sir.

Huh?

Sure.

Did anybody, did any of the press squeal about that?

I recall squealing once or twice.

Properly the Chicago Times did.

On the outside.

But you know what I mean.

Oh, sure.

This is a, this is a, if they ask me about it, I'll say, well, that's just simply a statement of fact.

We've

standard.

It's a practice.

Well, it's a very important thing, really, for the Social Security recipient to understand why it is that his check has changed, because he knows the ground rules.

That's the... No, I don't think...

Frankly, I don't think you'll get a question on that, but if you did, that's an easy one to dismiss, that it's always been done, and it's a mere statement of fact.

I just said it's not a new procedure.

No, that's right.

That's right.

Right.

I sent you a memo, Mr. President, on this...

whole question of hiding in the white house and not campaigning and all of that well i've got an idea that you might just really turn that one and and say that you know i've been campaigning many years but i think i've been around this country and people certainly know me but the real issue the real issues in this campaign are so great peace the role of the united states in the world strong national defense whether we have a welfare state or a work ethic

the nature of our society that i don't think people are going to make their judgments this year on the basis of rallies or motorcades or how many cities people can get to and in fact in a way all this business about all this focus on the techniques of campaigning i read what's written every now and then and how much a person campaigns or doesn't campaign what's really important is is the issues that are presented to the american people are fundamental issues that affect the future of this country and the character of the man and

I'm going to present the issues on the record of this administration, and my beliefs about the future of this country, they're well known, and I think we tend in the media to tend in politics to put a lot of attention on the balloons and the razzle-dazzle, but what's really important are the issues.

I think it might just really... Well, of course, as you know, this is purely...

purely the press trying to help McGovern, that's all.

Oh, sure.

Why the assholes, they think that, and why didn't they say this in 64?

Well, it's a... Screw them.

I mean, I'm going to just give them a very cold look when that comes up, believe me.

Well, that's...

I just don't... That's one I almost think you can really turn to your advantage because I...

I think it's an anti-political year.

I mean, I just think people are already sick of politics.

They've had too much of it.

They've gotten, you know, when you read the...

But the whole point is, they say, hiding in my house, not discussing the issues.

I say, now, which one do you want to know my position on?

I'm against amnesty.

I am against marijuana.

I'm against abortion.

I'm against busing.

I mean, my position's very clear.

I said, what is it that you have any question about?

I'm against new taxes.

I'm for government reorganizations.

I'm for my health bill.

I've set it all out in 1972.

Now, just what particular one do you think has not been covered?

That's it.

God almighty.

Don't you think that's the answer?

That's devastating.

Yeah.

And I think it's, in a way, and this is a reaction we're getting from people.

This is a reaction that turns up in our own polls.

In a way, people are a little turned off by the political stuff.

I mean, rallies and motorcades and...

But we're going to have some motorcades.

Well, sure, but I mean, of course.

And some of that is necessary in a campaign.

I particularly think they're turned off with the rally.

I think the rally with the shouting and the hoopla and the screaming and everything just turns people off.

Well, and politicians who promise everything... Yeah, and get out there and, like McGovern, Christ Almighty, how he could go...

I make a law and order speech, Chuck, for Christ's sake.

This son of a bitch who voted against Hainsworth and voted against Carr as well.

That's right.

Did he vote against Rehnquist?

No.

Was he absent?

No, he didn't vote against Rehnquist because we only lost two on that.

Powell?

Probably.

Wait a minute.

No, Powell.

Powell with no negative votes.

Is that right?

I don't know.

As I recall, he was unanimous.

We didn't lose just two on Rehnquist for Christ's sake.

No, I'm sorry.

26.

I'm sorry.

That's right.

Hell of a loss on that.

He might have been against him.

He could.

I should check that.

Well, it's not that important.

The point is he's a goddamn permissive bastard.

That's right.

Don't you agree?

Oh, well, and that's the public image of him.

So there isn't, to me, he can't.

We've had a very interesting check in the Southern California area.

And believe me, I mean, it's one of these things that's done on this rolling wave.

In Orange County, Los Angeles, it's just rolling like hell out there for us.

I mean this guy is not I mean they talk about California don't worry about it no but when it's going like that and I know Orange and Los Angeles counties when you when you go big there Christ you can't lose you just you're going to win the state easy hello yeah I'm here somebody picked up on that hello hello there we are yeah well the uh no no that's uh that's very interesting and uh the uh the the but but this whole business of the hiding and so forth he

they're depressed and I think really it's going to discombobulate them totally when I do this little silly office conference tomorrow you know doesn't mean a goddamn thing I mean they don't need to you know I go in there and answer half a dozen questions or 15 and so they won't know a damn bit more than they did before no not a thing that's right and then what they're going to scream about they'll say well we should do it more often well not too bad once a month's enough

Well, I think it's a good time for it, Mr. President.

I think it's not because of what the press has been saying, the hell with that, but simply because it's...

So it's to make a few points.

Sure.

Every time that you're able to talk about the great issues that affect the future of this country, you get people thinking again about those issues.

And, damn it, we win on all those issues, especially the way you frame them.

I think that...

there is no way that you can come out of I mean they'll you can you can get over any of the negative questions very easily I think well they have the usual watergate and the grain deal and all that and I just I'm gonna I can finesse all that doesn't bother me well I don't think those I don't think those are a problem he's going to have his problem too I don't his I don't know how the hell he's gonna have his new his peace plan for Vietnam what in the name of God it could be I don't know but

But let him go.

I just hope to God he gets something so that we can say he would impose a communist government.

We'll murder him.

Well, that'll be the end.

It'll be the end if he does that.

You know, he may just be desperate enough to...

and to really go even further than he has gone and if he uh if he does that he's then we've got to jump on him with all force don't you agree oh absolutely you know what i have a speech that uh loa weicher sent down to me that he's been using up in connecticut my god it reeks like a great great liberal yeah that great liberal reads like a right-wing uh revolutionary and uh what's he saying why is he doing that oh he's uh the mood is different the mood is different and uh isn't that great just kicks the

the Jesus out of McGovern for exploiting the prisoner thing, and he said this blind defense of, you know, he's exploiting the prisoner's release and the promise of total amnesty to those who have broken the law tells me that even a patriotic man like George McGovern can become the most foolish of candidates.

And then he goes, right, it kicks the hell out of him.

And according to him, he's just going around Connecticut talking about amnesty and the Vietnam War.

Now, there's a guy who, when he came to Congress, he said, you know, we work like hell.

Well, we lost him on some votes, too.

Sure.

he's reading the tea leaves and the political grassroots feelings.

And I was asking, it was interesting, I asked last night to everybody that I had a chance to talk to just because I went

the corruption charge and the stridency and the the wild language was setting in and people said oh my god that's just you know that's the worst thing you do that's going to bounce I thought it was very significant what Jerry Walde said though here's a guy that's a candidate for yes sir candidate for governor you know that's right liberal democrat it's a bright fellow I like him as a person I mean he's very bright but he just he knew that was dynamite I think it was he did that at the LA you don't know the Californians but the Comstock Club is a group of

Sacramento lobbyists and business people and the rest where where basically a gubernatorial candidate has got to have support and you know they're a bunch of horrors it's like it's like going to the you know the burning tree or something and they got to be you don't have them you don't win and when he had that question you know it came from question from the audience he damn well hit McGovern in the chops

God, I would think, I hope that's used today by somebody.

Well, we... Get it to all the surrogates?

Yes, sir.

We called it, and then we sent it out on Dex machines, and we had it hand-carried around, and we're getting the actual transcript, I think.

Well, I don't know.

By now, we ought to have it on our own spot, Master.

We were going to run it on our own radio system to get it out.

We're trying to get the actual transcript.

But it's good enough as it is.

Oh, yeah.

No, it's great.

It is significant that a liberal congressman who is for McGovern calls it gutter politics, would take him to task for gutter politics.

Now the thing to do is for Agnew just to quote him, not say it, but just quote him.

Don't charge him with it, but quote Waldie.

Well, we called Agnew and read it to his people, and he was going to use it.

I have not seen the wires moving out of South Dakota.

Right.

Where did he speak in South Dakota, Chuck?

He was in...

Rapid City?

Rapid City.

No, Rapid City.

Announcing that there was some damn federal grant that we were...

I don't know whether anybody's editorialized about the corrupt thing.

Has anybody said there was... Carson told me they have.

Mr. President, I haven't seen them yet, but he said that he was collecting some and he'd been making calls and he was getting people to write on it and we'll get columns on it and editorials.

The thing that... We don't want to drive him off of it, actually.

No, I'd rather have him talking about this than the economy.

It was Semlinger's point.

He said, God, he said you...

It's only, get the letter writers to all, to write him and say, great, go ahead, pour it to him.

Will you do that?

Yes, sir.

Get about 30 or 40 letters in to him right away.

I was getting, I'll do that.

I was getting them... Not the other way.

I was getting them writing letters to the editor the other way.

No, but we write to McGovern and to, you know, to Hart.

No, no, to Mankiewicz.

Mankiewicz, yeah.

Congratulations.

Thank God he's finally got a good advisor.

You've got to pour it on this son of a bitch.

Yeah.

Okay.

Maybe some to Larry O'Brien who will go for that also.

That's Larry O'Brien style.

I don't know if it's Larry.

I don't think Larry goes quite this far.

Well, Larry's been awful silent lately.

He sure has been quiet.

Very, very quiet.

I think there are reasons for that.

No, I don't think he can make it take... Mr. President, I really don't...

Tell you what he's about to do, though, he's about to cause George Meany to go all the way, I think.

What's he going to do, be taking him on again?

Well, Shriver has made a, if it's true, has made an incredible miscalculation.

You know, they've had this problem with the Colorado Labor Council, which divides Meany.

They've been trying to, the Colorado Labor Council has been trying to get Shriver to come in.

And one of the late wires tonight says after more than a week of indecision and a long series of scheduling changes,

plops democratic vice presidential candidate sergeant shriver decided finally today he will make a campaign address at a colorado labor council meeting in denver tonight if he does that this isn't the wires but i'm my understanding is if he does that that mean he will at the right time go all the way and say well here's where i am and uh jesus we we we get a

I mean that would release some people like Paul Hall and it would put, Abel, Abel would go with them.

If these guys are dumb enough to do this.

I just draw a sword on Meany.

Well that, oh hell, God what a break that would be because Meany today cracked down on the, he cracked down on those councils that had passed anti-Nixon resolutions but hadn't taken any formal action which you know, like in California he raised hell with Henning.

wrote Hennings and told him and made it public that he would have to back off and not even pass that kind of a resolution.

God, that's great.

The best thing we've done.

Oh, Jesus.

If this jackass Schreiber...

should go in there.

I can't believe this wire.

I can't believe they're that stupid.

Then what he's doing is making it a test of manhood with Meany.

If he makes it a test of manhood with Meany, my prediction is that with him.

Send, if you do have a couple of wires, three or four, send to Shriver.

He probably didn't get them anyway and say, congratulations, finally we have a person with guts taking on this mean son of a bitch.

Taking on that old baron.

The old curmudgeon.

That's right.

Send some wires.

Send about eight or ten, you know, from various places.

Thank God for one man that will speak out and has the guts to do it.

You know, Shriver is such a sophomore that that would just get to him.

It'll get to him.

Send it to him.

It really will.

That's the way to play the game.

Don't do the obvious.

Do the other thing.

Yeah.

Whenever you want somebody not to do something, tell them to do it.

Tell them to do it.

Well, anyway, I'll read your memorandum and we'll take this thing on.

I just think it's an opportunity.

I think people are in that serious mood, Mr. President.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.