{"conversationCode":"148-003","tapeNumber":148,"conversationNumber":3,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-148-003","startDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:16:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:20:00.000Z","startDate":"10-Oct-1972","startTime":"8:16 PM","endDate":"10-Oct-1972","endTime":"8:20 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\");","description":"On October 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:16 pm to 8:20 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 148-003 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDST","recordingDevice":"Camp David Study Table","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 148-3\n\nDate: October 10, 1972\nTime: 8:16 pm - 8:20 pm\nLocation: Camp David Study Table\n\nThe President talked with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.\n\n[See Conversation No. 219-5]\n\n        House of Representatives\n\n            -Spending ceiling\n                -Vote passage\n                    -Margin\n                    -William E. Timmons\n                         -Cabinet officers\n                              -Assignments\n                    -Wilbur D. Mills\n                         -Speech\n                         -The President's handling of fiscal affairs\n                              -Mill’s endorsement\n\n        The President's schedule\n            -Meeting with Senators\n                -Meeting with Henry A. Kissinger\n                -Timmons\n                -Cloture vote\n                     -Press\n                     -Timmons\n                     -Statement\n            -Telephone call to Mills\n                -Telephone call to Gerald R. Ford\n                -Mills’s speech\n            -George S. McGovern foreign policy speech, October 10, 1972\n                -Charles W. Colson\n                -R. Sargent Shriver\n                -Amnesty","filename":["148-003.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")"],"prevCode":"148-002","nextCode":"148-004","transcript":[{"start":0.34,"end":1.24,"text":"Mr. Haldeman."},{"start":1.8,"end":2.42,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":2.44,"end":3.1,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":3.3,"end":6.44,"text":"I just wanted to let you know the spending ceiling passed 221 to 163."},{"start":6.6,"end":8.71,"text":"That's good."},{"start":8.73,"end":10.35,"text":"221 to 163."},{"start":11.57,"end":12.15,"text":"Right."},{"start":12.51,"end":14.25,"text":"Which has just astonished everybody."},{"start":15.84,"end":18.92,"text":"Because it's just a hell of a lot bigger margin than they expected."},{"start":20.06,"end":24.65,"text":"Bill said he really worked on the cabinet officers this morning and gave them all assignments and they all did it."},{"start":25.55,"end":27.45,"text":"He thinks they did a hell of a job on that."},{"start":27.55,"end":29.3,"text":"The crew working the floor did a job."},{"start":29.7,"end":42.14,"text":"And he said Wilbur Mills gave the greatest speech of his career on the floor that was a ringing endorsement of the president's integrity in managing fiscal affairs, which was the key."},{"start":42.16,"end":46.82,"text":"Because, see, the bitch was that, obviously, the line they were using was they shouldn't give you this power."},{"start":47.76,"end":54.73,"text":"And he made the case that your record and integrity and so forth was such that they could do that without concern."},{"start":56.12,"end":56.4,"text":"Right."},{"start":57.64,"end":58.82,"text":"So they're all quite excited."},{"start":59.04,"end":60.37,"text":"It was, I guess, quite a deal."},{"start":61.71,"end":68.47,"text":"With that kind of a margin, I wonder if you want to reconsider the question of meeting with the senators."},{"start":68.49,"end":69.51,"text":"Well, I have to go back there."},{"start":69.55,"end":70.84,"text":"I don't want the assholes up here."},{"start":71.04,"end":72.5,"text":"No, why not do it Thursday morning?"},{"start":73.98,"end":74.62,"text":"All right."},{"start":74.76,"end":79.48,"text":"They won't move to consider at all until Thursday, and that will give you the thing to do."},{"start":79.55,"end":85.37,"text":"Even if you meet with Henry, you only need a half hour with the senators anyway."},{"start":85.74,"end":86.28,"text":"Right."},{"start":86.3,"end":87.62,"text":"Have the senators at 10 o'clock."},{"start":88.26,"end":91.25,"text":"Well, he'd like to do it a little earlier, at 8.30 or 9. Who?"},{"start":91.73,"end":92.87,"text":"Bill."},{"start":93.03,"end":93.75,"text":"If we're going to do it."},{"start":94.07,"end":94.93,"text":"Well."},{"start":95.56,"end":97.9,"text":"They have a cloture vote at 11, which is one problem."},{"start":98.12,"end":98.94,"text":"Then make it 8.30."},{"start":100,"end":101.86,"text":"It'll make a long day, but we'll do it."},{"start":101.89,"end":103.13,"text":"Well, I'll make it 9 o'clock."},{"start":103.17,"end":103.91,"text":"Make it 9 o'clock."},{"start":104.15,"end":104.77,"text":"That's right."},{"start":104.79,"end":105.79,"text":"They'd just soon come at 9."},{"start":105.89,"end":106.53,"text":"They'd rather."},{"start":107.19,"end":107.43,"text":"Why?"},{"start":107.59,"end":108.52,"text":"They'd rather come at 9."},{"start":109.66,"end":112.84,"text":"And catch them and then catch Henry at 9.30."},{"start":114.65,"end":117.17,"text":"What time's our cloture vote?"},{"start":117.19,"end":118.15,"text":"The cloture vote's at 11."},{"start":118.17,"end":118.83,"text":"Just make it 9."},{"start":118.93,"end":119.35,"text":"That's right."},{"start":119.37,"end":119.75,"text":"That's right."},{"start":119.77,"end":120.58,"text":"9 o'clock's good."},{"start":120.59,"end":122.02,"text":"That gives them plenty of time."},{"start":122.4,"end":127.92,"text":"And then, see, they'd go out and catch a little press afterwards, which, because it now, that wouldn't be a grandstand."},{"start":127.97,"end":131.99,"text":"It now looks as though, you know, you could consider there might be a chance."},{"start":132.01,"end":133.59,"text":"It's very slim."},{"start":133.61,"end":137.6,"text":"Bill says he doesn't want to kid you into thinking you might have it."},{"start":138.29,"end":140.69,"text":"What he knows is they're going to screw it up with amendments."},{"start":140.71,"end":142.03,"text":"There's no chance, Bob, really."},{"start":142.92,"end":143.5,"text":"That's all right."},{"start":143.56,"end":144.98,"text":"We'll put the heat to them."},{"start":145.12,"end":149.95,"text":"He's got 35 votes, and he figures if he can pick up a few more, he might just do it."},{"start":150.73,"end":152.17,"text":"How's he going to get it to a vote?"},{"start":152.19,"end":152.91,"text":"He's got a culture."},{"start":154.23,"end":155.13,"text":"See, that's the problem."},{"start":155.38,"end":156.96,"text":"Well, I don't know."},{"start":158.36,"end":159.18,"text":"Okay, well, good."},{"start":159.5,"end":161.16,"text":"It's worth a swing."},{"start":161.42,"end":163.85,"text":"Now, they've drafted a statement they're going to put out down there."},{"start":163.87,"end":164.83,"text":"I assume you don't need to..."},{"start":164.85,"end":165.45,"text":"I don't need to see it."},{"start":165.69,"end":168.21,"text":"It just praises their action, urges the Senate to follow suit."},{"start":168.47,"end":170.72,"text":"Very responsible Senate to follow suit, right."},{"start":171.16,"end":174.93,"text":"And you might want to consider calling Wilbur."},{"start":174.94,"end":178.37,"text":"That would be the only follow-up on it."},{"start":179.19,"end":181.29,"text":"Jerry was our leader, but there's no need to call him."},{"start":181.5,"end":182.2,"text":"Oh, God, no."},{"start":182.64,"end":184.14,"text":"We've done that enough."},{"start":187.33,"end":210.79,"text":"the mill if you call mills refer to his speech right i know that you heard he did and his courage in the taking the lead on this thing but that uh okay you set the meeting up and uh we'll take a swing at it good okay they uh colson's got all the other things operating on the uh"},{"start":211.19,"end":211.91,"text":"McGovern thing."},{"start":211.97,"end":215.48,"text":"God, that was the silliest son-of-a-bitching thing I ever heard, when you come to think of it."},{"start":215.5,"end":218.46,"text":"That Shriver thing is so preposterous, they ought to laugh out of court."},{"start":219.28,"end":220.89,"text":"Yeah, well, he doesn't make a big thing out of that."},{"start":220.95,"end":222.41,"text":"That's just one of his..."},{"start":222.43,"end":224.27,"text":"I know, but I mean, it's still just to throw it in."},{"start":224.75,"end":226.5,"text":"He threw amnesty in, too, which is good."},{"start":227.28,"end":227.54,"text":"Good."},{"start":228.18,"end":228.56,"text":"Okay."},{"start":229.28,"end":229.5,"text":"All right."},{"start":230.1,"end":231.53,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman discuss the successful House passage of a spending ceiling, which passed with a larger-than-expected margin due to intensive lobbying by cabinet members and a decisive floor speech by Wilbur Mills. Following this victory, the two coordinate a strategy to pressure the Senate, scheduling a meeting with key senators for Thursday morning to push for a cloture vote. The conversation also touches on ongoing efforts by Charles Colson to capitalize on George McGovern's controversial statements regarding amnesty and foreign policy.","topics":["Spending ceiling","Wilbur D. Mills","Congressional relations","Cloture vote","George S. McGovern","Amnesty"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T08:50:13.188Z"},"topicSlugs":["spending-ceiling","wilbur-d-mills","congressional-relations","cloture-vote","george-s-mcgovern","amnesty"],"audioDurationSec":236,"audioFiles":[{"file":"148-003.mp3","bytes":5671914,"durationSec":236.25,"bitrate":192062,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:33.323Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:55.461Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/148-003.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/148-003","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/148/conversation-148-003","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}