{"conversationCode":"148-008","tapeNumber":148,"conversationNumber":8,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-148-008","startDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:46:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:50:00.000Z","startDate":"10-Oct-1972","startTime":"8:46 PM","endDate":"10-Oct-1972","endTime":"8:50 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Mills, Wilbur D.;","description":"On October 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Wilbur D. Mills talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:46 pm to 8:50 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 148-008 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDST","recordingDevice":"Camp David Study Table","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 148-8\n\nDate: October 10, 1972\nTime: 8:46 pm - 8:50 pm\nLocation: Camp David Study Table\n\nThe President talked with Wilbur D. Mills.\n\n[See Conversation No. 219-10]\n\n        Greetings\n\n        House of Representatives\n           -Speech on debt limit ceiling\n           -John W. Byrnes\n           -Conference prospect\n                -US Senate\n\n        The President's schedule\n            -Meeting with Senators\n                -Leonard B. (“Len”) Jordan\n\n        Senate\n            -Comment by Richard K. Cook\n                -Finance Committee\n            -Russell B. Long\n            -Jordan\n            -Herman E. Talmadge\n            -Harry F. Byrd, Jr.\n            -Finance Committee\n            -Timing of meeting\n            -Legislative compromise\n                -Welfare\n                -Medicare\n                     -Widow’s benefits\n                -William E. Timmons\n\n                                       (rev. Oct-06)\n\n        The President’s schedule\n            -John G. Veneman\n            -Elliot L. Richardson","filename":["148-008.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Mills, Wilbur D."],"prevCode":"148-007","nextCode":"148-009","transcript":[{"start":2.51,"end":2.83,"text":"Hello."},{"start":3.17,"end":4.35,"text":"I have Congressman Mills for you."},{"start":5.47,"end":5.8,"text":"Go ahead."},{"start":6.3,"end":6.58,"text":"Hello."},{"start":6.92,"end":8.2,"text":"How are you, Mr. President?"},{"start":8.22,"end":8.94,"text":"Wilbur, how are you?"},{"start":8.96,"end":14.77,"text":"I thought you should know that, unfortunately, I don't get down to get the galleries."},{"start":14.83,"end":24.86,"text":"People notice me, but several people who heard your speech today, they were, of course, mainly Republicans."},{"start":25.66,"end":30.91,"text":"said that it was one of the great speeches ever made in the floor of the House, and I just thought you'd like to know that before you went to bed."},{"start":31.13,"end":33.25,"text":"Well, John did a good job, too, John Burns."},{"start":33.27,"end":35.41,"text":"Yeah, I know, I know."},{"start":35.79,"end":42.5,"text":"But I'll tell you, it was a very statesmanlike thing, and it was just a great thing to do for the country."},{"start":42.56,"end":44.66,"text":"We don't know what our friends in the Senate will do."},{"start":44.92,"end":47.09,"text":"I just wish to hell you were there."},{"start":47.41,"end":49.33,"text":"I'm going to hold to this thing in conference."},{"start":49.35,"end":50.55,"text":"We're not going to give up."},{"start":50.57,"end":51.11,"text":"Can you do that?"},{"start":51.73,"end":53.37,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":53.39,"end":55.11,"text":"Tell me, have you got a minute?"},{"start":55.77,"end":57.93,"text":"How does it tell me the legislative situation?"},{"start":57.95,"end":61.84,"text":"Because I'm going to get the senators in Thursday morning to talk to some of them."},{"start":61.86,"end":65.45,"text":"If you can get Senator Jordan to stand for a motion."},{"start":65.47,"end":65.97,"text":"Len Jordan."},{"start":65.99,"end":66.81,"text":"All right, I'll get him in."},{"start":66.87,"end":70.74,"text":"Dick Cook says that we can carry it in the Finance Committee."},{"start":70.76,"end":72.55,"text":"All right, I'll get him down."},{"start":72.85,"end":73.61,"text":"How about Russell?"},{"start":74.25,"end":75.73,"text":"Oh, Russell's been against it always."},{"start":75.77,"end":76.63,"text":"Russell's suspended."},{"start":76.93,"end":78.23,"text":"All right, then we'll get Jordan."},{"start":78.25,"end":80.34,"text":"And I'll make this sort of a Republican group then, huh?"},{"start":80.62,"end":81.7,"text":"Oh, I would."},{"start":81.74,"end":82.76,"text":"Make it just the Republicans."},{"start":82.92,"end":85.39,"text":"I think that's better because otherwise it gets partisan."},{"start":85.85,"end":86.19,"text":"I would."},{"start":86.23,"end":86.71,"text":"I'd do that."},{"start":86.73,"end":87.95,"text":"There's no need to call Russell in."},{"start":87.97,"end":89.83,"text":"He just will make it water for you."},{"start":89.95,"end":90.19,"text":"Right."},{"start":90.49,"end":96.38,"text":"You ought to be able to get Carmen Talmadge and some others on our side."},{"start":96.62,"end":98.46,"text":"Yeah, but that's got to be done very quietly."},{"start":98.5,"end":99.2,"text":"Very quietly."},{"start":99.48,"end":100.73,"text":"And you can get Byrd, I think."},{"start":101.38,"end":103.3,"text":"Yeah, I'm sure we can get Byrd."},{"start":103.42,"end":106.67,"text":"Yeah, so that we can win it in the financial committee if we work at it."},{"start":107.53,"end":108.65,"text":"All right, we'll do it."},{"start":108.67,"end":110.93,"text":"If you've got any thoughts, pass it on."},{"start":111.01,"end":114.24,"text":"I'm going to meet with him 9 o'clock Thursday morning."},{"start":114.4,"end":115.14,"text":"That'll be fine."},{"start":115.16,"end":118.12,"text":"I'm going to have the conference in the morning at 9 o'clock."},{"start":118.14,"end":119.14,"text":"Now, here's my idea."},{"start":121.36,"end":130.28,"text":"If we can get the Senate to agree to take over everything that's added to this bill, and then we agree to take out those things the Senate doesn't like,"},{"start":131.37,"end":136.96,"text":"You'll get about 50% to 55% of a house-pass bill, but it'll be minus welfare."},{"start":137.98,"end":140.5,"text":"It will take care of the disabled under Medicare."},{"start":141.4,"end":145.45,"text":"It'll raise the widow's benefit up to 100% of her husband's benefit."},{"start":145.47,"end":149.73,"text":"A few things like that need not a very expensive bill compared to what they've got."},{"start":150.39,"end":150.71,"text":"I see."},{"start":151.05,"end":153.41,"text":"It'll be cheaper than a house bill, even."},{"start":154.8,"end":155.68,"text":"I see."},{"start":155.88,"end":157.04,"text":"All right, fine."},{"start":157.06,"end":160.68,"text":"And will you tell, if you'll keep..."},{"start":161.03,"end":164.26,"text":"Timmons or whoever you want to go with."},{"start":164.28,"end":168.14,"text":"Tell them what the strategy is so that we can sort of know what to do, huh?"},{"start":168.26,"end":172.11,"text":"Well, you'll have him and Jack Veneman, one of the best men you've got working for you."},{"start":172.13,"end":172.59,"text":"Veneman, good."},{"start":172.61,"end":173.55,"text":"I'll have him at the meeting."},{"start":174.55,"end":179.41,"text":"And probably at some point, Richardson himself will be there."},{"start":179.84,"end":180.09,"text":"Right."},{"start":180.18,"end":181.92,"text":"But we'll work together on it."},{"start":182.26,"end":182.62,"text":"Good."},{"start":182.7,"end":184.02,"text":"It won't embarrass us at all."},{"start":184.32,"end":184.86,"text":"Sure, I know."},{"start":184.92,"end":185.98,"text":"I know what this is."},{"start":186,"end":188.28,"text":"It's very delicate and sensitive."},{"start":188.6,"end":189.09,"text":"It is."},{"start":189.22,"end":190.7,"text":"Yeah, right."},{"start":191.12,"end":195.91,"text":"Well, anyway, give my best to that child that answers the phone when I usually call you."},{"start":196.79,"end":196.89,"text":"Okay?"},{"start":197.25,"end":197.97,"text":"My wife."},{"start":198.21,"end":201.19,"text":"Yeah, no, not only your wife, but you remember the..."},{"start":201.22,"end":202.82,"text":"I wasn't gambling too hard about you."},{"start":202.84,"end":204.56,"text":"I don't think you did, too."},{"start":204.58,"end":204.78,"text":"Okay."},{"start":205.16,"end":205.78,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":206.24,"end":206.64,"text":"All right."},{"start":207.02,"end":208.15,"text":"Thanks a lot."},{"start":208.22,"end":208.31,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Congressman Wilbur Mills coordinated legislative strategy to secure support in the Senate Finance Committee for a pending bill involving debt limits, Medicare, and welfare. Mills encouraged Nixon to convene a private, Republican-led meeting with key Senators, specifically mentioning Len Jordan and Harry F. Byrd, Jr., to build momentum while avoiding obstruction from Russell Long. The two agreed on a strategy to compromise on specific bill provisions, such as disability and widow's benefits, to ensure passage while keeping the administration's legislative team, including William Timmons and John Veneman, fully informed.","topics":["Debt Limit","Senate Finance Committee","Medicare","Welfare Reform","Legislative Strategy","Wilbur D. Mills"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T08:50:41.681Z"},"topicSlugs":["debt-limit","senate-finance-committee","medicare","welfare-reform","legislative-strategy","wilbur-d-mills"],"audioDurationSec":212,"audioFiles":[{"file":"148-008.mp3","bytes":5093876,"durationSec":212.17,"bitrate":192064,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:33.323Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/148-008.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/148-008","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/148/conversation-148-008","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}