Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 148 › Conversation 148-010

Nixon phone call with Byrnes on debt limit and expenditure ceiling

Tuesday, October 10, 1972 · 8:52 PM–8:55 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Byrnes, John W.Conversation148-010 on Tape 148StartTuesday, October 10, 1972 at 8:52 PMEndTuesday, October 10, 1972 at 8:55 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 148-010 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon calls Congressman John W. Byrnes to congratulate him on a successful House vote regarding the debt limit expenditure ceiling. Seeking to maintain legislative momentum, Nixon outlines his plan to pressure Republican senators during an upcoming Thursday morning meeting to ensure a unified front. Byrnes and the President agree that securing a substantial vote is critical to strengthening their position in the subsequent House-Senate conference committee.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello?
Congressman Burns, sir.
Could we hear, please?
Hello?
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Well, I just wanted to thank you for a great job you did today.
Oh, my goodness.
That was a hell of a vote.
It was.
Everything turned out great.
Right.
I'm as pleased as you are.
I'm going to have in the senators, you know, the Republican senators at least, Thursday morning at 9 o'clock.
And, you know...
I put their feet to the fire.
Huh?
I'd put their feet to the fire.
Oh, I will.
Now, will you have any guidance as to what we ought to do?
Tell them you'll let us know, and I'll have them there at 9 o'clock and work them over and tell them that this is a matter of... that the people that are going to be in that conference, they better damn well stand up.
Oh, hell, well, you know...
I think we'll put the heat on them, too, you know, as far as just accepting anything that doesn't have one.
I see.
You know.
Yeah, you can do that, can't you?
Well, we'll tell them what the hell.
In conference, even if they don't do anything, it's going to be in conference.
Yeah.
See?
Yeah, I see.
So what the Republicans can do, sure, they're going to have a battle from the Democrats.
Sure.
But at least strengthen the hand of those, and even if they lose.
They've got to put up a good Republican front so that in conference, on the House side, we can just lay a tomb and say, hell no, we're not going to take it without it.
Right.
Good.
But if they get a very poor support on the Republican side, then we're kind of put behind an eight ball in the conference to insist that...
Right.
Right.
We're going to have to have this ceiling in there.
But Roth is pushing hard over there.
He ought to be able to get 35, 40 votes, I think.
Well, the big thing is really the size of the vote.
I think they're probably going to have more trouble than we had in some respects.
Yes.
But the big thing is to just get a substantial vote so that we can go to the Madden conference.
Right, right.
I got the message.
And we'll let it cool a day, and then 9 o'clock Thursday morning, I'll put their feet to the fire.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you.
Yeah, not at all.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On October 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John W. Byrnes talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:52 pm to 8:55 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 148-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 148-10

Date: October 10, 1972
Time: 8:52 pm - 8:55 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with John W. Byrnes.

[See Conversation No. 219-12]

        House of Representatives
           -Vote on debt limit expenditure ceiling

        The President's schedule
            -Meeting with Republican senators
                -Timing
                -Scenario for debt ceiling conference
                     -Possible battle between Republicans and Democrats

                     -William V. Roth, Jr.
                     -The President’s view

Also recorded on October 11, 1972

  • 148-007 8:44 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:44 pm and 8:46 pm.
  • 219-009 8:44 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:44 pm and 8:46 pm.
  • 148-008 8:46 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Wilbur D. Mills talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:46 pm to 8:50 pm.
  • 219-010 8:46 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Wilbur D. Mills met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 8:46 pm to 8:50 pm.
  • 148-009 8:50 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:50 pm and 8:52 pm.
  • 219-011 8:50 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:50 pm and 8:52 pm.
  • 219-012 8:52 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John W. Byrnes met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 8:52 pm to 8:55 pm.
  • 148-011 9:04 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:04 pm and 9:34 pm.

All 48 conversations from October 11, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 148-010, October 11, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/148-010 (accessed October 12, 2026).