{"conversationCode":"148-010","tapeNumber":148,"conversationNumber":10,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-148-010","startDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:52:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-11T00:55:00.000Z","startDate":"10-Oct-1972","startTime":"8:52 PM","endDate":"10-Oct-1972","endTime":"8:55 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Byrnes, John W.;","description":"On October 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John W. Byrnes talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:52 pm to 8:55 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 148-010 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDST","recordingDevice":"Camp David Study Table","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 148-10\n\nDate: October 10, 1972\nTime: 8:52 pm - 8:55 pm\nLocation: Camp David Study Table\n\nThe President talked with John W. Byrnes.\n\n[See Conversation No. 219-12]\n\n        House of Representatives\n           -Vote on debt limit expenditure ceiling\n\n        The President's schedule\n            -Meeting with Republican senators\n                -Timing\n                -Scenario for debt ceiling conference\n                     -Possible battle between Republicans and Democrats\n\n                     -William V. Roth, Jr.\n                     -The President’s view","filename":["148-010.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Byrnes, John W."],"prevCode":"148-009","nextCode":"148-011","transcript":[{"start":1.75,"end":3.67,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":4.43,"end":5.34,"text":"Congressman Burns, sir."},{"start":5.4,"end":8.24,"text":"Could we hear, please?"},{"start":8.26,"end":8.4,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":8.42,"end":10.16,"text":"Yes, sir, Mr. President."},{"start":10.18,"end":12.82,"text":"Well, I just wanted to thank you for a great job you did today."},{"start":12.84,"end":13.88,"text":"Oh, my goodness."},{"start":13.9,"end":15.31,"text":"That was a hell of a vote."},{"start":15.33,"end":15.67,"text":"It was."},{"start":16.15,"end":17.15,"text":"Everything turned out great."},{"start":17.21,"end":17.47,"text":"Right."},{"start":17.77,"end":18.51,"text":"I'm as pleased as you are."},{"start":18.83,"end":27.16,"text":"I'm going to have in the senators, you know, the Republican senators at least, Thursday morning at 9 o'clock."},{"start":28.16,"end":29.72,"text":"And, you know..."},{"start":29.74,"end":30.78,"text":"I put their feet to the fire."},{"start":30.82,"end":31.62,"text":"Huh?"},{"start":31.72,"end":33.08,"text":"I'd put their feet to the fire."},{"start":33.33,"end":34.09,"text":"Oh, I will."},{"start":34.87,"end":39.55,"text":"Now, will you have any guidance as to what we ought to do?"},{"start":39.57,"end":50.47,"text":"Tell them you'll let us know, and I'll have them there at 9 o'clock and work them over and tell them that this is a matter of... that the people that are going to be in that conference, they better damn well stand up."},{"start":51.85,"end":55.84,"text":"Oh, hell, well, you know..."},{"start":57.49,"end":63.78,"text":"I think we'll put the heat on them, too, you know, as far as just accepting anything that doesn't have one."},{"start":64.64,"end":64.94,"text":"I see."},{"start":65.32,"end":65.82,"text":"You know."},{"start":65.84,"end":67.04,"text":"Yeah, you can do that, can't you?"},{"start":67.06,"end":68.22,"text":"Well, we'll tell them what the hell."},{"start":68.28,"end":71.87,"text":"In conference, even if they don't do anything, it's going to be in conference."},{"start":72.31,"end":72.75,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":73.31,"end":73.47,"text":"See?"},{"start":74.07,"end":74.83,"text":"Yeah, I see."},{"start":74.91,"end":79.36,"text":"So what the Republicans can do, sure, they're going to have a battle from the Democrats."},{"start":79.6,"end":79.84,"text":"Sure."},{"start":80.2,"end":84.22,"text":"But at least strengthen the hand of those, and even if they lose."},{"start":84.49,"end":96.11,"text":"They've got to put up a good Republican front so that in conference, on the House side, we can just lay a tomb and say, hell no, we're not going to take it without it."},{"start":96.47,"end":96.71,"text":"Right."},{"start":97.33,"end":97.57,"text":"Good."},{"start":97.59,"end":105.71,"text":"But if they get a very poor support on the Republican side, then we're kind of put behind an eight ball in the conference to insist that..."},{"start":105.95,"end":106.25,"text":"Right."},{"start":107.39,"end":107.51,"text":"Right."},{"start":107.9,"end":109.98,"text":"We're going to have to have this ceiling in there."},{"start":110.14,"end":111.92,"text":"But Roth is pushing hard over there."},{"start":111.96,"end":114.73,"text":"He ought to be able to get 35, 40 votes, I think."},{"start":114.75,"end":119.27,"text":"Well, the big thing is really the size of the vote."},{"start":119.33,"end":122.78,"text":"I think they're probably going to have more trouble than we had in some respects."},{"start":122.8,"end":123.16,"text":"Yes."},{"start":123.62,"end":131.79,"text":"But the big thing is to just get a substantial vote so that we can go to the Madden conference."},{"start":131.81,"end":133.12,"text":"Right, right."},{"start":133.14,"end":133.94,"text":"I got the message."},{"start":134.49,"end":138.93,"text":"And we'll let it cool a day, and then 9 o'clock Thursday morning, I'll put their feet to the fire."},{"start":139.39,"end":139.91,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":139.94,"end":140.5,"text":"Okay."},{"start":140.7,"end":141.38,"text":"Okay."},{"start":141.4,"end":141.7,"text":"All right."},{"start":141.72,"end":142.12,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":142.34,"end":143.43,"text":"Yeah, not at all."},{"start":143.45,"end":144.11,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon calls Congressman John W. Byrnes to congratulate him on a successful House vote regarding the debt limit expenditure ceiling. Seeking to maintain legislative momentum, Nixon outlines his plan to pressure Republican senators during an upcoming Thursday morning meeting to ensure a unified front. Byrnes and the President agree that securing a substantial vote is critical to strengthening their position in the subsequent House-Senate conference committee.","topics":["debt limit","expenditure ceiling","Republican Party","legislative strategy","House-Senate conference"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T08:50:52.720Z"},"topicSlugs":["debt-limit","expenditure-ceiling","republican-party","legislative-strategy","house-senate-conference"],"audioDurationSec":148,"audioFiles":[{"file":"148-010.mp3","bytes":3546591,"durationSec":147.72,"bitrate":192070,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:32.999Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:42:55.463Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/148-010.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/148-010","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/148/conversation-148-010","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}