{"conversationCode":"149-004","tapeNumber":149,"conversationNumber":4,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-149-004","startDateTime":"1972-10-14T19:50:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-14T19:53:00.000Z","startDate":"14-Oct-1972","startTime":"3:50 PM","endDate":"14-Oct-1972","endTime":"3:53 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.;","description":"On October 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 3:50 pm to 3:53 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 149-004 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"CDST","recordingDevice":"Camp David Study Table","latitudeEstimated":39.648333,"longitudeEstimated":-77.465,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 149-4\n\nDate: October 14, 1972\nTime: 3:50 pm - 3:53 pm\nLocation: Camp David Study Table\n\nThe President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.\n\n[See Conversation No. 220-4]\n\n        Budget\n           -Ehrlichman's previous conversation with Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger\n           -Spending limitation\n               -Bureaucracy\n               -Congress\n\n        Schedule\n            -The President's trip to Philadelphia for revenue sharing signing ceremony\n                -Frank L. Rizzo’s discussion with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, Ehrlichman\n                -Weather\n                -Refreshments at ceremony\n                     -National Park Service\n                -Invitation from Rizzo\n            -Congressional adjournment\n                -Debt ceiling-spending limit conference\n                -Welfare\n                -William E. Timmons's conversations with Hugh Scott and Michael J.\n                Mansfield\n                    -Timmons’s upcoming telephone call to Ehrlichman\n            -James O. Eastland's Committee's possible hearings\n                -Watergate\n                    -Testimony\n                          -Frederick C. LaRue\n                          -John N. Mitchell, Maurice H. Stans\n                          -White House\n                               -Executive privilege\n                          -LaRue","filename":["149-004.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ehrlichman, John D."],"prevCode":"149-003","nextCode":"149-005","transcript":[{"start":0.49,"end":1.61,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":2.57,"end":3.19,"text":"Well, we got here."},{"start":3.21,"end":3.93,"text":"Anything new?"},{"start":4.09,"end":5.97,"text":"No, nothing new for the moment."},{"start":6.03,"end":8.86,"text":"I talked to Weinberger and got him headed in the right direction, I think."},{"start":9.42,"end":11.1,"text":"And I'll let you know just when something breaks."},{"start":11.16,"end":16.48,"text":"Actually, with a 20% limitation, we basically got the best of both worlds."},{"start":16.62,"end":19.97,"text":"It gives us a reason for cutting, you know what I mean?"},{"start":20.05,"end":20.51,"text":"Right."},{"start":20.79,"end":21.63,"text":"With a bureaucracy."},{"start":22.11,"end":24.33,"text":"And on the other hand, it gives us discretion, right?"},{"start":24.35,"end":24.91,"text":"Yep, yep."},{"start":24.93,"end":26.49,"text":"And a chance to blame the Congress still."},{"start":26.59,"end":30.36,"text":"You still get a chance to veto on the strength of not getting the whole thing."},{"start":30.83,"end":34.31,"text":"Bob, incidentally, did talk to that fellow, and he's just..."},{"start":34.73,"end":35.25,"text":"Delighted."},{"start":35.99,"end":38.09,"text":"Yeah, I talked to him first."},{"start":38.51,"end":40.31,"text":"Apparently, he just thinks it's a great idea."},{"start":40.33,"end":41.49,"text":"Yeah, oh, my."},{"start":41.57,"end":42.13,"text":"But it is."},{"start":42.4,"end":43.12,"text":"It is a good idea."},{"start":43.14,"end":45.16,"text":"He was terribly afraid you weren't going to come at all."},{"start":45.18,"end":46.24,"text":"But it's a good idea."},{"start":46.26,"end":47.38,"text":"It really is a good idea."},{"start":47.4,"end":49.18,"text":"I think it's going to be a sensational picture."},{"start":49.2,"end":53.37,"text":"It's just going to be a picture, and I think your idea is standing out in front for the receiving end."},{"start":53.39,"end":54.63,"text":"Of course, we have a weather problem."},{"start":54.65,"end":57.15,"text":"Well, sure, and if it doesn't pan out, there's another way to do it."},{"start":57.23,"end":59,"text":"If we can't, we'll find a way to get out."},{"start":59.02,"end":59.84,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":60.16,"end":62.6,"text":"Or you can move over to that other chamber or, you know."},{"start":63.06,"end":63.82,"text":"Right, right."},{"start":64.59,"end":71.32,"text":"And I think we ought to, of course, have some coffee catered or something like that."},{"start":71.34,"end":72.28,"text":"Yeah, we may not need to."},{"start":72.48,"end":73.83,"text":"Park service will take care of it."},{"start":73.85,"end":74.05,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":75.55,"end":88.09,"text":"Okay, well that does give us, and I think that it really isn't too gimmicky because of the sense that the mayor invited, and she's a Democratic mayor, and it is constitutional, and that's where it all began, and we're making this change back to the Constitution."},{"start":88.93,"end":89.61,"text":"So, anyway."},{"start":89.91,"end":94.26,"text":"All right, I'll give you a call if there's something down there."},{"start":94.68,"end":97.32,"text":"You don't have to unless there's something I need to know."},{"start":97.86,"end":98.14,"text":"Right."},{"start":99.11,"end":101.05,"text":"They're still sort of drilling for the..."},{"start":101.5,"end":109.07,"text":"They're going to try and get through this, the whole debt ceiling spending limit conference, and then move on welfare."},{"start":109.43,"end":110.03,"text":"And then adjourn."},{"start":110.19,"end":110.99,"text":"And then adjourn."},{"start":111.91,"end":115.69,"text":"But Timmons is now up talking to Scott Mansfield."},{"start":116.66,"end":120.62,"text":"And so we'll get a little better reading on that for sure after he gets back."},{"start":121.62,"end":122.64,"text":"He's going to give me a call."},{"start":124.22,"end":127.64,"text":"And LaRue is trying to talk to you soon."},{"start":127.67,"end":129.01,"text":"I haven't checked on that today."},{"start":129.05,"end":131.39,"text":"That was last night."},{"start":131.96,"end":134.24,"text":"I'll do a little checking on that, see what's going on there."},{"start":134.28,"end":135.67,"text":"He's still puffing and puffing."},{"start":135.69,"end":138.21,"text":"I noticed that he's announced his hearings and so forth."},{"start":138.23,"end":138.39,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":138.69,"end":143.78,"text":"That's just such a damn... Coming this late, it is a blatant thing, of course."},{"start":144.24,"end":146.99,"text":"But, you know, it would be quite a parade that he has up there."},{"start":147.06,"end":147.97,"text":"Oh, sure."},{"start":148.47,"end":151.27,"text":"You can't plead any... Mitchell would have to appear."},{"start":152.17,"end":152.63,"text":"That's right."},{"start":152.65,"end":153.25,"text":"So it stands."},{"start":153.31,"end":154.02,"text":"That's right."},{"start":154.06,"end":155.94,"text":"We could keep the White House out of it."},{"start":155.96,"end":156.7,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":156.72,"end":158.3,"text":"That's his privilege, but the others..."},{"start":158.32,"end":158.52,"text":"Right."},{"start":164.81,"end":165.29,"text":"Okay."},{"start":165.46,"end":165.93,"text":"All right."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss political strategy, focusing on the tactical advantages of a 20% federal spending limitation and planning for an upcoming revenue-sharing ceremony in Philadelphia with Mayor Frank Rizzo. The conversation also addresses the status of congressional adjournment regarding the debt ceiling and welfare legislation, as well as concerns regarding potential Watergate-related hearings by Senator James O. Eastland. They discuss the necessity of protecting the White House via executive privilege while acknowledging that individuals like John Mitchell might be compelled to testify.","topics":["Budget","Revenue Sharing","Philadelphia","Congressional Adjournment","Watergate","Executive Privilege"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T08:52:09.922Z"},"topicSlugs":["budget","revenue-sharing","philadelphia","congressional-adjournment","watergate","executive-privilege"],"audioDurationSec":171,"audioFiles":[{"file":"149-004.mp3","bytes":4110209,"durationSec":171.2,"bitrate":192065,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:33.322Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/149-004.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/149-004","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/149/conversation-149-004","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}