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Conversation 015-111

TapeTape 15StartTuesday, November 23, 1971 at 11:43 AMEndTuesday, November 23, 1971 at 11:47 AMTape start time03:31:48Tape end time03:35:33ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  White House operator;  Brock, WilliamRecording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On November 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and William Brock talked on the telephone from 11:43 am to 11:47 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 015-111 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 15-111

Date: November 23, 1971
Time: 11:43 am - 11:47 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with the White House operator.

     William E. Brock, III

The President talked with Brock.

[See also Conversation No. 623-5]

     Birthday greetings
          -William E. Timmons
     Appreciation for Brock's support
         -Speeches

     Vote on campaign contributions
          -The President's meeting with Robert P. Griffin and Hugh Scott
          -Possible veto
                -Tax Bill
          -Constitutional issue
          -Public consciousness
          -Party structure
                -Federal financing

     Congressional action
         -Excise tax
         -Investment tax credit
         -Personal exemption

     George Meany
          -Reactions to confrontation with the President
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Good morning.
I don't know how a man as busy as you can take time out to have a birthday, but my friend, but Timmons was telling me, he says, you know, the senator's 41 today.
And I says, oh God, he can't be that old.
Well, bless you.
But how you doing, boy?
I'm doing fine.
You've been making some fine speeches, believe me, and we appreciate your...
strong sport.
Thank you for saying so.
Well, I mean every word of it.
That was a tough vote yesterday.
But I met this morning with, you know, I meet occasionally with Scott and Griffin, you know, and had them for breakfast.
Scott recommends a veto if it comes down this farm, do you?
Yes, sir.
Even though it means that we lose the tax bill?
I wouldn't do it on the premise that the
the political implications of that adverse, Mr. President.
I don't honestly think they are.
I think we...
The tax bill.
The tax bill itself is, I think, an atrocity.
Oh, it is, yes.
You really do.
The whole thing.
I don't see how...
I think it can do you more damage than good.
I hope the House will exercise a little more judgment.
It won't.
They're going to leave the political thing in, Bill.
And that will change the whole constitutional system in this country.
That's really what it gets down to.
It's just plain immoral to tax the people of this country to finance candidates for whom they have no support.
You just cannot do that.
And despite the fact that they do it and they're supposed to check it off, it doesn't work that way, does it?
They don't individually, they aren't making a conscious decision with regard to a candidate.
They don't know who he is yet.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
That's right.
They're buying a pig and a poke.
Of course.
Of course, particularly with the non-incumbents.
And, of course, it'll go on, let me say, as you know, to House and Senate, as sure as we sit here.
Yes, it will.
And if I were a House or Senate member, boy, on the Democratic side, I'd be very concerned about it because it just means that they're going to be financing their opponents.
Do you realize that?
Yes, sir, I do.
And I think, too, that something that wasn't really adequately explored in the debate is
The basic immorality of any federal financing is that it perpetuates the status quo.
By giving $20 million to one man as a non-income, it allows him to totally subvert the party structure all the way down to the state level.
He can own that party, not just for that election, but for years.
Let me ask you, if we veto, do you think that the Congress will then come up with maybe the...
The excise tax and the investment tax credit and the personal exemption, in other words, a thinned-down bill.
Yes, sir, I did.
Some think they will have to.
Well, in any event, I'm considering it.
I want you to know we'll see what your brave men in the House do.
We've got some good ones over there.
Yeah.
And they'll do a good job if they care.
Yeah.
i'm sure you uh you uh enjoyed our my little confrontation with your friend mr meaning i was i don't think i've been that depressed in a long time i i was i have it so ingrained in me mr president that you thought was great for him i think it was great politically i mean i was great i i enjoyed it i mean uh he was he was acting like that and so we had a fine but
I don't think he did himself any favors.
No.
Or his group.
Yeah.
I think it was an embarrassment to the whole movement.
You came out very well.
I think you have yourself just beautifully.
I'm very proud of you.
Bill, go home tonight and tell your wife that I told you to take the night off, okay?
Very good.
All right.
Thanks.
Bye.
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