Nixon phone call with Colson on Second term reorganization

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That's good to have a mixture of people, you know, so they can

really have a balanced view of the whole thing.

And they're fair-minded people.

Moynihan is going to see that we've got real reaming.

Oh, he's been on our side on this subject for some time.

He's good on the media bias question.

But I volunteered to give him a few hours after the campaign.

I got a view.

Do it for you, the fellows.

But clearly I can't find.

He's apparently celebrating.

Well, they will be.

I would think they will be.

But they—Moneylasker said that all the TV cameras are on there at 320 and 325, and that he started to shout, four more years, and they yelled, four more years.

Al Garten said that—well, it was without question—he said it's a Nixon victory in the market.

Nixon Market.

And I got a hold of Regan.

He said the same thing.

you know it's one week to the day uh mr president that's kind of a nice second round of uh celebrations that's right because uh it doesn't mean that much in terms i only went up about six points but breaking that sound barrier is something isn't it it's like the four minute mile that's right well i think it'll i i think it's on a steady incline personally i think now they you know the uncertainties of the election are over they know that countries and

Good, solid hands.

Oh my God, all the economic data.

They should have been investing three months ago in the economic news.

I would think so, yes.

Let me ask you something.

Is Cleary possibly, or would he consider the commerce job?

That's an interesting thought.

Why don't you explore it with him?

Right.

He'd like to be asked, I'm sure, in any event.

He probably figures that he's got, you know, right at the height of his career and all that sort of thing.

Well, he is, of course.

He's so entrenched in that organization.

Yeah, I know.

I mean, he's got...

But what I was thinking of, if we could...

I'd like to get a good...

Frankly, if we could get a Catholic businessman in that job, that would be a very good place to have one, you see.

Sure would.

Another possibility, Mr. President, that I didn't...

thing to mention to you last night, but it's a damn good one, is that John Collins, the former mayor of Boston somewhere, is one hell of a guy.

Could he do that job?

Oh, yeah.

Collins is a fellow who could do damn near any job.

I just think he's— But does he have business?

Does he know commerce and that sort of thing?

Well, he's a consultant to a number of businesses.

He's in a couple and sells small ones.

Is he a lawyer?

Well, no.

I don't think he is.

That's all right.

He's the president of the Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce this year.

That's great.

He's well respected in the Boston business community.

The Boston businessman, that's the reason he had a falling out with the Kennedys.

The Boston businessman considered him the best mayor Boston had ever had because he was kind of tough.

All right.

There's a good possibility.

Good possibility.

We'll put that in the back of our minds just once.

You've got your life.

uh i think he frankly would have more uh more stroke than the other fall i agree more strokes and clearly with the business community yeah yeah and he's also got the political sense and savvy and so forth well he sure does uh ken lyons was in today you know the lady yeah and he said you fellas can't appreciate what uh collins did he said with his crutches he's of course a polio victim he went all over the place he said he was on television he raised fourteen thousand dollars more than he spent returned it to

national headquarters for Democrats for Nixon.

He said nobody's ever done that.

He said he had people out working, and he said the guy was just a spectacular organizer, and mean and tough.

All right.

That sounds like a good— I was thinking of him as a fellow that should be thought of for someplace.

But why not Commerce?

Might be damn good at Commerce.

See?

Also, of course, he's got an academic background.

He's a well-rounded fellow.

Well, I think that's the better chance.

That's the better chance, right?

I could probably make us a lot of points by just exploring a fellow like Cleary.

Yeah.

Well, handle it that way in a very low-key way with him, but I think Collins is the better bet of the two.

Yeah, I think he is from a standpoint of getting a gentleman you want done.

He's just...

That also shows that we don't punish Massachusetts.

Well, I hadn't thought of that.

It's not bad.

Not bad.

Yeah, that's right.

Oh, yeah, you don't want too much of the northeast either.

That's all right, though.

That's all right.

He's more middle America, really.

Oh, he really is.

He really is.

Stick it to Kennedy, in a way.

Sure.

Bring in the former mayor of Boston right in.

Well, anyway, that's a good one to have in mind.

But you see what I have in mind?

I think we ought to have both that and labor.

We could get a good balance there.

I understand that, according to Hartman Meany, he says he didn't want no labor leader, and that's obvious because he doesn't want anybody but him to be the labor man.

But we can't follow his advice on that sort of thing.

Well, that's the reason you're getting that, Mr. President.

I know the background of that.

Anybody that has put in there is a rival.

That's right, I know.

What he would like is a lawyer.

Yeah, that's why he's for Dunlop.

Who could control, yeah.

Oh, sure, my God.

And I would never take him.

Well, I think the symbolism of that would be a disaster.

I would never do it, never.

Of course, the other problem we have is whoever, and this is a real tough problem.

is to ride that fine line between Meany and Fitzsimmons.

I know.

They're going to be— Well, we'll try to ride it, but if we have to lean, we're going to tilt toward Fitzsimmons.

Well, I think that's the right decision, Mr. President, because Meany won't be here for you.

No.

his neutrality was terribly important to us.

That's right.

There were guys who went out and worked their fannies off of him.

That's right.

Absolutely.

You know, I was thinking of one other thing on the—I was looking at the Star, looking at the McGovern interview.

It really was a shocking damn thing where he said the country lost.

It's unbelievable.

And I rather think that—I don't want it done from the White House, but I—I mean,

I think somebody like Goldwater or something ought to stomp on him on that, sir.

What do you think?

Well, that might be a good idea.

I'd like to build him up at the moment, because— Yeah, that's right.

Maybe that builds him up, to stomp on him.

Because the longer he stays in power and runs things, the better.

Better for us.

You know, the fighting that is going on in that party right now, Mr. President, is just beginning.

But, God, it is going to be blood.

Good.

I mean, here's this sissy Farenthold, Farenthold.

Yeah.

The gal from Texas.

who said that if Westwood is dropped, that what it means is that Strauss is back in, which means that Conley is back in the Democratic Party, which means that the Republican Party will have taken over the Democratic Party.

You know, Democrat Party.

That's good.

They're going, you know, they're just going at each other hammer and tongue.

Yeah.

I'd love to see it continue.

I really do.

That's it.

Yeah, I think you're right.

It's just best to let McGovern build himself up a little.

I'm not so sure that Goldwater attacking him might just build that up.

That might be fine.

The thing I'd love to do is to figure out how to keep them fighting with each other.

That's right.

If Goldwater attacking him rallies people behind McGovern.

Yeah, good.

Well, take it over, okay?

Yes, sir, I'll do it.

Fine, and we'll check the columns then.

Nixon phone call with Colson on Second term reorganization

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on November 15, 1972

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