Nixon phone call with Harlow on Second term reorganization and Melvin R. Laird

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so right sir right well sir how you doing i'm just fine you finally coined a new one didn't you you sure did it's that you know they told me i don't know what their their final figures won't be in until they get all the absentees but

They say there's about an even chance that we'll go over the 61.1.

God, I'm just praying that that happens.

I talked to Connelly yesterday.

He says he's praying for a 209.

I'm just praying for that.

It's very close now, you know.

It's over 61.

See, the absentees are all helping us, Bryce.

Well, that's it.

I'm just tickling it.

I've lost track of it.

Nothing's been printed, but we're checking the Secretary's estate.

Let me ask you one thing.

I'm seeing Mel today, you know, to go over his plans.

He's announced he's going to leave.

Do you know what he's planning to do?

He doesn't know himself, best I know.

But I haven't actually talked with him privately about it for quite a while.

Let me run something by you just off the top of my head.

All right.

I'm going to move now that I'm, and I think this is the time to do it,

virtually all the politics out of the White House into the National Committee, which I think is a good idea.

But not all the politicians.

Oh, hell no.

But you know what I mean.

Oh, good.

All of those.

You mean the PR people and everybody else.

I mean, that kind of stuff ought to be done from the National Committee if the National Committee were worth a damn.

I agree with that.

Second point.

You ever heard of Lord Wooten?

Lord Wooten?

Remember him?

Well, go ahead and tell them now, because I don't know.

Oh, sure.

The guy that rebuilt the Conservative Party?

Yes.

That's right.

The letter of service to the Secretary of Defense has been very good in a very difficult time.

But Defense's gain was politics lost.

That's right.

Except during this campaign.

Well, we talked about that.

Let me draw a high, something I'm just thinking, I'm conjuring up my own mind.

How about my leaning on Laird and saying, Mel, you're a great politician.

You're needed.

But you should take the national committee, become the national chairman, have the salary of seventy-five plus, you know, all the everything, and really go to work on building the Republican Party.

we're going to pull those damn Senate and House campaign committees, we hope, into the whole drill, finally, because that's going to be reorganized.

Apparently, they're, you know, with Brock going in at the Senate, probably, should be a good man, and maybe Jack Kipp at the House.

But, you know, Mel really ought to do something like that.

He'll be out there in business.

He's going to be a damn bit happy to make money.

He doesn't have any money, does he?

I think they have a little.

Yeah, but how does that strike you?

I think it strikes me beautiful.

I don't think he'll do it, but I think you ought to lean on him.

Well, I'll lean on him.

It's beautiful.

Well, if Mel's interested in a political career, he could make something out of that job at this point.

Well, could I offer a suggestion on how to get him?

Yeah.

Now, what will go instantly through his mind is that he'll be cut off from you.

No, no, no.

The way of really by moving the politics out of the White House, like Harry Dent's leaving, you see.

Yes, I know.

And all the rest.

My political man will be Mel Laird.

Well, the thing is, I'm just trying to think of how you can get him.

Right.

You will tell him in the course of making that pitch that, now there's one part of this thing that's highly important.

Sure.

We'll have a standing state.

Not less often than once every two weeks.

Oh, sure.

And as much sooner than they had called.

Yep, absolutely.

Oh, I would expect it once a week, as a matter of fact, up until the time of the elections of 1974.

After that, then I sort of want to step back a little because I don't want to be involved in that.

Of course not, that bloodletting.

Bloodletting between Agnew and Connolly and all the rest.

But you see, if he knows that,

He knows that he's not out in the South 40.

Oh, no, but the point is, the whole point is that whoever we get for this job is going to have a hell of a job.

That's my point.

He's going to be the president's political man.

If you drive that home, he'll be in and out of there a whole lot.

Then he may well do it.

But let me just—I just wanted to get your thought.

That's good.

I got the message.

That's great.

I got the message.

That's great.

Well, you're doing great.

Well, we're reorganizing a lot here.

There'll be some that will stay, some that will not.

And it's pretty tough, but you know what I mean.

You remember I thought that in our time, in the Eisenhower period, that we made a mistake.

In fact, I'm looking over the history of second terms.

They all make mistakes in revivifying their administrations in the second term.

You've got to get some blood in it, a new trust.

You remember, I think I told you what I tried to get Sherman to do in 1955.

I went in and made a pitch to him

to terminate the old White House Staff Service after three years.

And I told them to start staggering the staff and run them out.

And they'll start with me and run me out.

Well, we can't run the whole—I'm making very significant changes in the staff, but I've got to keep some, you know.

Like a Haldeman, I've got to keep—you know, they don't—incidentally, fortunately,

Alderman and Ehrlichman and also Kissinger don't want to stay indefinitely, you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah.

Of course you would do that.

But the others will leave me.

That's totally healthy.

See my point?

Totally healthy as long as it's done and nobody gets hurt.

Let's see.

Finch is leaving.

Herb Klein.

Herb will leave, yes.

He should leave.

They want to bench Herb Klein, Don Rumsfeld.

Don ought to go back and run for the Senate, but he's got to decide to do it now.

You know, Don's rural problem is making up his mind.

Yeah, that's right.

He started to leave once before and backed away.

Well, I'm going to go into that with him.

But, no, this is healthy.

And, oh, what a few people will be going.

Chuck Colson will be leaving, whether it's right now or three, four months from now is between us.

It depends on how we get the thing shinned away so he gets everything shucked off.

But he's going out and will be very active on the political and legal and all that sort of thing.

Well, I'm glad to hear that, because he's damn good.

Yeah.

We're not going to have another foundation.

He's just superb in this stuff.

That's right.

Right.

Oh, yeah.

Thank you.

So, no, we're not going to hurt anybody on our staff, I can assure you.

But we do have to make some changes.

People get a little tired.

They get worn out.

I have no doubt about that.

The Timmons thing is a problem.

I don't have any good option there except to keep them, unless you've got somebody you want to recommend.

Well, I don't immediately.

There's none of the defeated members, but... No, no, no, no.

And I don't want to go to it.

I'm not going to go to them.

I'm just not going to do it.

I've looked over them, and there's no one there.

No.

Of course, I know you want to go now, other than Jack Miller, and I just couldn't do it.

It would be great, yeah.

Great.

Jack called this morning.

Okay.

All right.

All right, sir.

Nixon phone call with Harlow on Second term reorganization and Melvin R. Laird

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on November 17, 1972

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