Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 153-046
Date: Friday, November 17, 1972 at 1:07 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Harlow, Bryce N.
Recording device: Camp David Study Table
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/153-046

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] so right sir right well sir how you doing i'm just fine you finally coined a new one didn't you you sure did it's that you know they told me i don't know what their their final figures won't be in until they get all the absentees but
[0:17] They say there's about an even chance that we'll go over the 61.1.
[0:21] God, I'm just praying that that happens.
[0:24] I talked to Connelly yesterday.
[0:25] He says he's praying for a 209.
[0:26] I'm just praying for that.
[0:29] It's very close now, you know.
[0:31] It's over 61.
[0:32] See, the absentees are all helping us, Bryce.
[0:36] Well, that's it.
[0:37] I'm just tickling it.
[0:38] I've lost track of it.
[0:40] Nothing's been printed, but we're checking the Secretary's estate.
[0:44] Let me ask you one thing.
[0:46] I'm seeing Mel today, you know, to go over his plans.
[0:50] He's announced he's going to leave.
[0:51] Do you know what he's planning to do?
[0:53] He doesn't know himself, best I know.
[0:57] But I haven't actually talked with him privately about it for quite a while.
[1:01] Let me run something by you just off the top of my head.
[1:05] All right.
[1:06] I'm going to move now that I'm, and I think this is the time to do it,
[1:11] virtually all the politics out of the White House into the National Committee, which I think is a good idea.
[1:18] But not all the politicians.
[1:20] Oh, hell no.
[1:21] But you know what I mean.
[1:22] Oh, good.
[1:23] All of those.
[1:25] You mean the PR people and everybody else.
[1:27] I mean, that kind of stuff ought to be done from the National Committee if the National Committee were worth a damn.
[1:32] I agree with that.
[1:33] Second point.
[1:34] You ever heard of Lord Wooten?
[1:37] Lord Wooten?
[1:38] Remember him?
[1:40] Well, go ahead and tell them now, because I don't know.
[1:42] Oh, sure.
[1:42] The guy that rebuilt the Conservative Party?
[1:45] Yes.
[1:45] That's right.
[1:49] The letter of service to the Secretary of Defense has been very good in a very difficult time.
[1:56] But Defense's gain was politics lost.
[2:01] That's right.
[2:01] Except during this campaign.
[2:03] Well, we talked about that.
[2:04] Let me draw a high, something I'm just thinking, I'm conjuring up my own mind.
[2:11] How about my leaning on Laird and saying, Mel, you're a great politician.
[2:17] You're needed.
[2:18] But you should take the national committee, become the national chairman, have the salary of seventy-five plus, you know, all the everything, and really go to work on building the Republican Party.
[2:34] we're going to pull those damn Senate and House campaign committees, we hope, into the whole drill, finally, because that's going to be reorganized.
[2:41] Apparently, they're, you know, with Brock going in at the Senate, probably, should be a good man, and maybe Jack Kipp at the House.
[2:49] But, you know, Mel really ought to do something like that.
[2:53] He'll be out there in business.
[2:56] He's going to be a damn bit happy to make money.
[2:59] He doesn't have any money, does he?
[3:01] I think they have a little.
[3:02] Yeah, but how does that strike you?
[3:04] I think it strikes me beautiful.
[3:07] I don't think he'll do it, but I think you ought to lean on him.
[3:09] Well, I'll lean on him.
[3:11] It's beautiful.
[3:13] Well, if Mel's interested in a political career, he could make something out of that job at this point.
[3:21] Well, could I offer a suggestion on how to get him?
[3:23] Yeah.
[3:24] Now, what will go instantly through his mind is that he'll be cut off from you.
[3:28] No, no, no.
[3:29] The way of really by moving the politics out of the White House, like Harry Dent's leaving, you see.
[3:33] Yes, I know.
[3:34] And all the rest.
[3:35] My political man will be Mel Laird.
[3:37] Well, the thing is, I'm just trying to think of how you can get him.
[3:41] Right.
[3:41] You will tell him in the course of making that pitch that, now there's one part of this thing that's highly important.
[3:47] Sure.
[3:48] We'll have a standing state.
[3:50] Not less often than once every two weeks.
[3:52] Oh, sure.
[3:53] And as much sooner than they had called.
[3:54] Yep, absolutely.
[3:56] Oh, I would expect it once a week, as a matter of fact, up until the time of the elections of 1974.
[4:04] After that, then I sort of want to step back a little because I don't want to be involved in that.
[4:12] Of course not, that bloodletting.
[4:13] Bloodletting between Agnew and Connolly and all the rest.
[4:16] But you see, if he knows that,
[4:20] He knows that he's not out in the South 40.
[4:22] Oh, no, but the point is, the whole point is that whoever we get for this job is going to have a hell of a job.
[4:31] That's my point.
[4:32] He's going to be the president's political man.
[4:36] If you drive that home, he'll be in and out of there a whole lot.
[4:42] Then he may well do it.
[4:43] But let me just—I just wanted to get your thought.
[4:46] That's good.
[4:47] I got the message.
[4:48] That's great.
[4:49] I got the message.
[4:50] That's great.
[4:51] Well, you're doing great.
[4:54] Well, we're reorganizing a lot here.
[4:57] There'll be some that will stay, some that will not.
[5:00] And it's pretty tough, but you know what I mean.
[5:05] You remember I thought that in our time, in the Eisenhower period, that we made a mistake.
[5:09] In fact, I'm looking over the history of second terms.
[5:12] They all make mistakes in revivifying their administrations in the second term.
[5:18] You've got to get some blood in it, a new trust.
[5:21] You remember, I think I told you what I tried to get Sherman to do in 1955.
[5:24] I went in and made a pitch to him
[5:28] to terminate the old White House Staff Service after three years.
[5:33] And I told them to start staggering the staff and run them out.
[5:36] And they'll start with me and run me out.
[5:39] Well, we can't run the whole—I'm making very significant changes in the staff, but I've got to keep some, you know.
[5:46] Like a Haldeman, I've got to keep—you know, they don't—incidentally, fortunately,
[5:51] Alderman and Ehrlichman and also Kissinger don't want to stay indefinitely, you know what I mean?
[5:58] Oh, yeah.
[5:58] Of course you would do that.
[5:59] But the others will leave me.
[6:02] That's totally healthy.
[6:04] See my point?
[6:04] Totally healthy as long as it's done and nobody gets hurt.
[6:08] Let's see.
[6:08] Finch is leaving.
[6:10] Herb Klein.
[6:12] Herb will leave, yes.
[6:14] He should leave.
[6:17] They want to bench Herb Klein, Don Rumsfeld.
[6:19] Don ought to go back and run for the Senate, but he's got to decide to do it now.
[6:23] You know, Don's rural problem is making up his mind.
[6:26] Yeah, that's right.
[6:27] He started to leave once before and backed away.
[6:29] Well, I'm going to go into that with him.
[6:32] But, no, this is healthy.
[6:35] And, oh, what a few people will be going.
[6:41] Chuck Colson will be leaving, whether it's right now or three, four months from now is between us.
[6:46] It depends on how we get the thing shinned away so he gets everything shucked off.
[6:50] But he's going out and will be very active on the political and legal and all that sort of thing.
[6:58] Well, I'm glad to hear that, because he's damn good.
[7:01] Yeah.
[7:02] We're not going to have another foundation.
[7:07] He's just superb in this stuff.
[7:08] That's right.
[7:09] Right.
[7:10] Oh, yeah.
[7:11] Thank you.
[7:11] So, no, we're not going to hurt anybody on our staff, I can assure you.
[7:16] But we do have to make some changes.
[7:17] People get a little tired.
[7:18] They get worn out.
[7:19] I have no doubt about that.
[7:23] The Timmons thing is a problem.
[7:26] I don't have any good option there except to keep them, unless you've got somebody you want to recommend.
[7:33] Well, I don't immediately.
[7:35] There's none of the defeated members, but... No, no, no, no.
[7:37] And I don't want to go to it.
[7:39] I'm not going to go to them.
[7:40] I'm just not going to do it.
[7:41] I've looked over them, and there's no one there.
[7:43] No.
[7:44] Of course, I know you want to go now, other than Jack Miller, and I just couldn't do it.
[7:47] It would be great, yeah.
[7:48] Great.
[7:49] Jack called this morning.
[7:51] Okay.
[7:52] All right.
[7:53] All right, sir.